Do I dare be the first to try to run larger tires? (on a 2nd gen) - Jeep Compass Forum
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post #1 of 43 Old 11-02-2017, 04:17 PM Thread Starter
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Do I dare be the first to try to run larger tires? (on a 2nd gen)

Edit - Jump to my conclusion post here: https://www.myjeepcompass.com/forums/140249-post28.html

-------------------------------- Original Post:

We had our first major snowfall, and her and I both drove the Jeep out in it yesterday and declared our stock tires the worst thing we have ever driven in snow. Her civic was driving circles around the Compass, rendered totally helpless by these dumb tires.

Should have gotten those crappy things swapped out for a credit before I had too many miles on them, but they rode OK in the dry and the handling was decent on dry so I didn't expect them to be so bad for winter (although for the record, my father told me on at least two occasions that he could tell by the tread that they were going to be a terrible winter tire).

Live and learn. Anyways, I'm planning to go to the shop soon and spring for some Michelin Defender LTX so my mighty 4x4 can actually get around this winter. Its still mostly going to be driven on the dry highway so rather than deal with the headache of a dedicated snow tire twice a year swapping on and off just going to get one set of tires that are OK in all categories and call it good for 70k miles.

My debate is whether to stick with the stock size 225/55R18, or go up one size to 235/55/R18 ...

We're talking about a half inch wider and a half inch taller, nothing extreme. A fuzz bigger tire is more of a placebo for me, the driver, than anything else.. but I would like to imagine that it will look a tad cooler with an "oversized" tire, and that handling might be improved marginally with the increased width. Obviously the extra height and width doesn't help ice traction but... eh... doesn't help gas mileage either...

Its just one of those dumb things, I know somewhere in the back of my mind the cons outweigh the pros but I don't want to admit it.

I want to look at the side view of the rig with almost imperceptibly larger tires and let my imagination do its thing, you know, the whole:

What everyone else sees:


What I see in my head after adding a half an inch bigger tire:


Can anybody else relate?

I don't care much about gas mileage but I am concerned I will end up buying 5 expensive tires so my full size spare won't be too much smaller than the rest of the tires...

Anyone think I would get away with temporary use of the spare if it had to go on for 50 slow, gentle miles after getting these slightly bigger tires?
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post #2 of 43 Old 11-03-2017, 12:33 AM
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I'd agree, on this kind of vehicle wide tires look rugged, capable. Maybe not 35" rugged but hey, every bit helps, yeah?

By the time the tires on my Trailhawk need replacing, I suspect Mopar (or some aftermarket vendor) will have put out a proper but modest lift kit like what they did with the Trailpass (https://www.topspeed.com/cars/jeep/2...-ar176291.html), at which point I'll probably spring for bigger, knobbier tires.

Considering spares are usually donuts anyway, I'd think you can get away with a slightly smaller full-size in a pinch, as long as you're taking it easy.
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post #3 of 43 Old 11-03-2017, 01:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
We had our first major snowfall, and her and I both drove the Jeep out in it yesterday and declared our stock tires the worst thing we have ever driven in snow. Her civic was driving circles around the Compass, rendered totally helpless by these dumb tires.

Should have gotten those crappy things swapped out for a credit before I had too many miles on them, but they rode OK in the dry and the handling was decent on dry so I didn't expect them to be so bad for winter (although for the record, my father told me on at least two occasions that he could tell by the tread that they were going to be a terrible winter tire).

Live and learn. Anyways, I'm planning to go to the shop soon and spring for some Michelin Defender LTX so my mighty 4x4 can actually get around this winter. Its still mostly going to be driven on the dry highway so rather than deal with the headache of a dedicated snow tire twice a year swapping on and off just going to get one set of tires that are OK in all categories and call it good for 70k miles.

My debate is whether to stick with the stock size 225/55R18, or go up one size to 235/55/R18 ...

We're talking about a half inch wider and a half inch taller, nothing extreme. A fuzz bigger tire is more of a placebo for me, the driver, than anything else.. but I would like to imagine that it will look a tad cooler with an "oversized" tire, and that handling might be improved marginally with the increased width. Obviously the extra height and width doesn't help ice traction but... eh... doesn't help gas mileage either...

Its just one of those dumb things, I know somewhere in the back of my mind the cons outweigh the pros but I don't want to admit it.

I want to look at the side view of the rig with almost imperceptibly larger tires and let my imagination do its thing, you know, the whole:

What everyone else sees:


What I see in my head after adding a half an inch bigger tire:


Can anybody else relate?

I don't care much about gas mileage but I am concerned I will end up buying 5 expensive tires so my full size spare won't be too much smaller than the rest of the tires...

Anyone think I would get away with temporary use of the spare if it had to go on for 50 slow, gentle miles after getting these slightly bigger tires?
What tires did yours come with? I landed the Firestone Destination LE2s. The girlfriend had these factory on her Cherokee Sport and they were fine in the winter for her. I'm going to touch snow for the first time tomorrow, so we'll see how they do. I have always ran Wrangler Adventure All-Terrain LR E tires with the mountain snowflake, so this will be the first time in over a decade I don't have snow tires. But, if I find they suck, I'm going to get a set of these: https://www.toyotires.com/tire/patte...ditions-tire-0 The Toyo Celsius CUV as they seem to have decent reviews on YouTube. And if YouTube says they are good, you know they are
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post #4 of 43 Old 11-03-2017, 05:25 AM
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This past Monday I had 4 Firestone Winterforce2 tires installed. Will see how they work out this winter. They are stock size 215/65-17
If you check out drdirt200 garage on this forum he has pictures of 225/65-17 BFG KO2 they look real nice.
Maybe this spring I will be putting on some Pirelli ATR Scorpions 225/65-17 and some after market rims.
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post #5 of 43 Old 11-03-2017, 02:22 PM Thread Starter
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I want to stick with my stock rims but I have the 18 inch rims and I am finding this limits the availability of a lot of nice tires for me vs 17 inch. Michelin doesn't event make the defender LTX in my stock size, just the next size up (which would still fit).

I am now leaning kinda towards some Geolandar A/T G015 225/55/R18 since they are 3PMSF rated (better than M/S), a bit cheaper than the defenders, and to be honest they just look better. I dig the aggressive tread pattern that blends into the sidewall. Not sure if this is a bonus or not, but they actually make the Geolandar in the stock size so if I'm sticking with that, then that is also a plus.

The next size up Geolandar G015 is much taller, more than an inch, not sure I would get away with that because there is hardly any clearance on the rear tires at the back of the passenger doors... nope I'll prolly just have to stick with stock size and as nobrake said maybe in the future by the time I wear these out there may be a nice minor lift kit available. That would be more appropriate for us anyways, we try to keep things close to stock until the warranty is out or almost out.

These are the tires our Limited came with: Continental ProContact TX They don't rate well in TireRack's reviews, especially not in the winter performance and thats a kicker for us living here in northern Minnesota. Also no way we are going to try to take these worthless donuts up into Snoquamie pass in the mountains in winter.

I still think the Michelin Defender LTX would have been a good all around tire, for a high-end passenger tire, but I think I'm willing to take a small hit in noise, tread life, and dry handling/ride in order to have an all-terrain tire with a superior snow rating. These Geolandars look like they are about as good as it gets before you slip into full on dedicated snow tire territory, and I just don't want to deal with storing a second set of tires and having them punched on and off twice a year.
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post #6 of 43 Old 11-03-2017, 05:54 PM
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While not an offroad tire, I've been running Nokian WRG3 SUV tires on my SUV's for a while and have been very impressed. They're basically a winter tire that you can run year round. They're a little stiffer than a dedicated winter tire so you don't lose cornering abilities during dry weather. I haven't done much offroading, but they did eat up the trail to my camp with 6"+ of snow in my old ford edge without any issues at all. I haven't put them through any mud to speak of. I'll likely put them on the Compass once the stock tires wear out, unless the stock tires (firestone LE2) are really awful in the snow. I also have the passenger car version on my RWD manual transmission caddy and I haven't gotten stuck in the snow yet.
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post #7 of 43 Old 11-03-2017, 10:45 PM
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My wife loves the Compass we bought except for the wheels/tires. She got spoiled by the look of the Wrangler takeoffs we put on the Grand Cherokee.
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post #8 of 43 Old 11-04-2017, 01:50 PM
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While not an offroad tire, I've been running Nokian WRG3 SUV tires on my SUV's for a while and have been very impressed. They're basically a winter tire that you can run year round.
Tire technology definitely seems to be progressing towards the true all season tire. On the other hand, dedicated winter tires keep getting better too so the bar keeps getting set higher. Long time ago now, but at one point I used Michelin Cross Terrains year round on my XJ. At that time they were as good as typical winter tires were in ice and snow. Since then however the concept has seemed elusive, mostly because winter tires have improved so much.
The term "winter tire" itself may mean different things to different people. My main interest is ice traction, since ice is what causes the most mayhem on the roads. Not as concerned about snow in respect to the tires, if it is so bad that I can't get through the snow with a Jeep 4x4 then no one is going anywhere regardless.
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post #9 of 43 Old 11-06-2017, 05:57 PM
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Tire technology definitely seems to be progressing towards the true all season tire. On the other hand, dedicated winter tires keep getting better too so the bar keeps getting set higher. Long time ago now, but at one point I used Michelin Cross Terrains year round on my XJ. At that time they were as good as typical winter tires were in ice and snow. Since then however the concept has seemed elusive, mostly because winter tires have improved so much.
The term "winter tire" itself may mean different things to different people. My main interest is ice traction, since ice is what causes the most mayhem on the roads. Not as concerned about snow in respect to the tires, if it is so bad that I can't get through the snow with a Jeep 4x4 then no one is going anywhere regardless.
I learned winter driving from my old '88 5.0 mustang through the adirondacks on old school snow tires only on the rear. That had to be worst handling vehicle in snow I've ever driven. It was a squirrely ride to say the least, but made it 4 years without incident. My first set of blizzacks was an eye opener. Regardless, anything with AWD/4WD and over 4 inches of ground clearance just feels like cheating.

Over the last few years the proper all weather tires seem to have made a jump from the all season garbage tires to something that is pretty solid in the snow. For me they are so close in performance to dedicated snow tires that I can't justify buying the extra set of rims for snows. In terms of weather we get the full mix from heavy wet snow, to the nice cold dry snow, as well as some ice. Haven't had issues making a beer run even in a solid nor'easter (aside from finding an open store). I'll be interested to see how the stock firestone LE2's do, but from the looks of the tread I think they'll be decent.

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post #10 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 01:36 PM
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I've been reading reviews for snow performance, and now I'm wishing I had even the Firestone LE2's.... not my ContiProContact tires. Which seem to have universally dismal snow review.

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post #11 of 43 Old 11-08-2017, 08:14 PM
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In being up North for deer camp, I've learned the Destination LE2 tires are okay in the snow. They don't suck, they aren't rock stars. They do suck on ice. Ice covered roads, going straight, they are okay. Stopping is a big issue. I stopped on a couple of hills covered in ice with no cars around and just spun all four tires. I'll be buying the Toyo tires I linked to above in a week or two.
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post #12 of 43 Old 11-09-2017, 04:20 PM
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My stock size, 235/45 R19 is an odd duck though. Those Toyo's aren't available in that size.

I'm leaning toward Michelin LTX as a compromise.
I'm going to see first hand how the Contis do in the snow though first... carefully.

https://www.michelinman.com/tire/mic...&zipCode=85001
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post #13 of 43 Old 11-10-2017, 02:10 PM Thread Starter
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I had another bad experience yesterday going in to work from overnight snow, which made me mad enough to write to both Jeep and Continental online to complain.

Continental basically said they recommend winter tires when the temp drops below 45 and that they simply provided the tires Jeep asked them for, Jeep said my dealership ordered this vehicle specifically with these tires and that the dealer would have had an option of Yokohama All-Seasons when they ordered instead but Continentals is what they ordered.
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post #14 of 43 Old 11-10-2017, 03:04 PM Thread Starter
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Back on topic, more for future use now than anything, I'm curious as to what the absolute largest tire size is that will fit stock without rubbing issues. I peaked a little over at the renegade forums to see what they have crammed in there, but hard to tell because all the big tire guys are running lifts already.

My main curiosity now is whether we could cram a 255/55R18 in there at stock height and get away with it.
ALL-TERRAIN T/A KO2 - SIZE: LT255/55R18

This would be 1.3 inches increase in overall diameter from stock, 0.65" closer to fender walls which when you put it that way doesn't sound too bad.
The more likely issue would be the width, a full 1.1 inches wider, but then again like with the diameter you divide this in half to get a tire that sticks out 0.55" wider left and right from rim center.

So, if its only 0.65" closer to the fenders and 0.55" closer to the front struts... maybe we could squeak by on this seemingly massively larger tire? Just think how nicely the fenderwells would be filled by these, and a world of good tire options open up for me when you start including the 255/55R18 sizes but the KO2 would be epic.

Just looked up the weight tho, 18 pounds heavier than stock ... thaaaats probably a non starter

I know the safety nazis and warranty peeps will carry on about the diameter being too much of an increase (4.7% vs the normally recommended 3%) but all that aside... it would be pretty cool. Probably a terrible loss in MPG and acceleration but it would look really cool =D

Sorry to keep focusing on the 18 inch rim sizes but thats what I've got and I like the rims it came with, but feel free to interject some smaller size rim/tire ideas as well.

Anyways what do you guys think? 1 inch larger and wider too much or within the realm of possibility?
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post #15 of 43 Old 11-10-2017, 04:06 PM
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arudlang,
Those T/A KO2's are excellent tires. I have them on my Cherokee and are the best general off-road traction tire I've had.
Pic here with the Cherokee next to my Compass.

But the extra sidewall reinforcing means they are HEAVY and you will definitely see a hit in fuel economy around town.
I also ended up swapping out to better struts/shocks because of the extra weight.

Unless you are running trails all the time and blowing sidewalls (which I was doing in the desert in my Cherokee) then I'd suggest there are better options out there than them.
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post #16 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 09:47 PM
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I want to go bigger and better than the stock 28" 215/65-17 Falkens that come on my Trailhawk, especially with winter on the way, so from what I'm reading (and assuming similar specs as the Renegade) it seems you're not going to fit much more than 28.5" diameter tires. Width-wise, supposedly some folks could fit 235/'s on their Renny Trailhawk without any modification but that could be pushing it. I know the suspension on the Compass trims are different so 225>235 might be doable on a Limited but 215>235 on a Trailhawk might not (without mods). If it's one or the other I'd prefer taller over wider myself (for ground clearance); a 0.5" increase (0.25" effective lift) just seems like small potatoes, but even the Trailpass concept I linked above needed a lift kit to fit 29". 225/65-17 is about as big as I can probably get. Eh, every bit helps, I guess.

To get that aggressive, oversized wider look you're really going to need wheel spacers, and if I'm going to do that I might as well wait for the inevitable lift kit, and if I'm going to do that (whenever one comes out) it's probably best to stay stock for now until the warranty is near out, like Arudlang said. By then I'll probably need new tires anyway.

The KO2s look awesome and by all accounts perform as good as they look… but the weight is a killer. 10+ lbs more per tire is a lot, especially considering the Compass is rather underpowered to begin with. I looked at the Continental TerrainContacts (featured on the Trailpass concept) but there didn't have any 225/65-17 and they're heavy, too. So I think the Yoko Geo's that Arudlang mentioned (A/T G015) are the way to go. Lot of Renegade owners went with them. Truth be told I'll probably never use or need what the KO2 can do while in a Compass, it was just peace of mind (and looks); the Geolandars are probably the perfect balance of on/off road capability, plus they've got the 3PMSF rating, plus they only weigh a few pounds more. And they're a lot cheaper.

Only questions is: white letters in, or out?
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post #17 of 43 Old 11-13-2017, 09:52 PM
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I want to go bigger and better than the stock 28" 215/65-17 Falkens that come on my Trailhawk, especially with winter on the way, so from what I'm reading (and assuming similar specs as the Renegade) it seems you're not going to fit much more than 28.5" diameter tires. Width-wise, supposedly some folks could fit 235/'s on their Renny Trailhawk without any modification but that could be pushing it. I know the suspension on the Compass trims are different so 225>235 might be doable on a Limited but 215>235 on a Trailhawk might not (without mods). If it's one or the other I'd prefer taller over wider myself (for ground clearance); a 0.5" increase (0.25" effective lift) just seems like small potatoes, but even the Trailpass concept I linked above needed a lift kit to fit 29". 225/65-17 is about as big as I can probably get. Eh, every bit helps, I guess.

To get that aggressive, oversized wider look you're really going to need wheel spacers, and if I'm going to do that I might as well wait for the inevitable lift kit, and if I'm going to do that (whenever one comes out) it's probably best to stay stock for now until the warranty is near out, like Arudlang said. By then I'll probably need new tires anyway.

The KO2s look awesome and by all accounts perform as good as they look… but the weight is a killer. 10+ lbs more per tire is a lot, especially considering the Compass is rather underpowered to begin with. I looked at the Continental TerrainContacts (featured on the Trailpass concept) but there didn't have any 225/65-17 and they're heavy, too. So I think the Yoko Geo's that Arudlang mentioned (A/T G015) are the way to go. Lot of Renegade owners went with them. Truth be told I'll probably never use or need what the KO2 can do while in a Compass, it was just peace of mind (and looks); the Geolandars are probably the perfect balance of on/off road capability, plus they've got the 3PMSF rating, plus they only weigh a few pounds more. And they're a lot cheaper.

Only questions is: white letters in, or out?
I like black side walls. Word of caution, remember that the Compass is not built like a Wrangler...to be heavily modified and adapted. I'd be careful running spacers. It might cause you problems down the road. I am sticking with the stock tire size. I go on Saturday morning to have the Toyo Celsius CUV tires mounted. I'm bringing the OEM Firestone tires home. I need to find a set of take-off wheels. I really like the Jeep factory 17" rims that are painted granite color as they look sharp and match my Jeep. Not sure how much luck I'll have finding some. Dealer wants $450 a rim!! Plus TPMS sensors. Doing crack is cheaper.

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post #18 of 43 Old 11-14-2017, 12:03 AM
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Word of caution, remember that the Compass is not built like a Wrangler...to be heavily modified and adapted.
*Sigh* Yeah, I'm still coming from a Renegade mindset, as that's what I was originally planning on getting for a long time. But that's why I figure on waiting a couple years before doing any serious tinkering -- besides riding out the warranty, I'll be able to learn from others' successes... and failures

$450/rim? Ooouch.
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post #19 of 43 Old 11-27-2017, 07:04 PM Thread Starter
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I wish I could rename this thread to "stock tires woes?" or something like that, someday in the future droves of 2nd gen compass owners are going to find this thread while searching for info about larger tires and be angry that I didn't actually do it...

But anyways, I have a new theory to run by you guys. I've been so zoned in on the idea that the OEM tires are probably crap that I never entertained the possibility that perhaps my brand new jeep came right out of the gate with an alignment issue. Seems unlikely, right? But it could explain everything. Excessive negative camber or some way out of spec toe-in could be creating some significant lateral thrust that isn't noticeable on dry pavement but shines when one or more sides of the vehicle hit ice

Honestly I think it would make more sense than just bad tires, because bad tires alone should still probably go straight over ice until someone starts shaking the wheel excessively, but what I have experienced is that the instant one or both sides of the vehicle hits ice, the whole vehicle moves left and right. Its not a twisting motion (as I have experienced in other cars with bald tires), its the whole vehicle staying pointed mostly straight ahead but strafing left and right rapidly. So if both sides have a lot of camber thrust, or toe is excessively in/out, it would make sense the car would push left and right on a low traction surface.

Like I said on dry its not an issue. Handling on dry pavement is amazing, almost too good to be true compared to the S10 blazer this Jeep replaced in our household... I think I'm going to ask my dealer if they will cover checking the alignment because if that solves the puzzle I'd be so happy to not have to buy new tires the first year. I'd also be happy not to buy new tires and still have the exact same issue happening on ice if it really was an alignment problem all along...
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post #20 of 43 Old 11-28-2017, 06:14 PM
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I wish I could rename this thread to "stock tires woes?" or something like that, someday in the future droves of 2nd gen compass owners are going to find this thread while searching for info about larger tires and be angry that I didn't actually do it...

But anyways, I have a new theory to run by you guys. I've been so zoned in on the idea that the OEM tires are probably crap that I never entertained the possibility that perhaps my brand new jeep came right out of the gate with an alignment issue. Seems unlikely, right? But it could explain everything. Excessive negative camber or some way out of spec toe-in could be creating some significant lateral thrust that isn't noticeable on dry pavement but shines when one or more sides of the vehicle hit ice

Honestly I think it would make more sense than just bad tires, because bad tires alone should still probably go straight over ice until someone starts shaking the wheel excessively, but what I have experienced is that the instant one or both sides of the vehicle hits ice, the whole vehicle moves left and right. Its not a twisting motion (as I have experienced in other cars with bald tires), its the whole vehicle staying pointed mostly straight ahead but strafing left and right rapidly. So if both sides have a lot of camber thrust, or toe is excessively in/out, it would make sense the car would push left and right on a low traction surface.

Like I said on dry its not an issue. Handling on dry pavement is amazing, almost too good to be true compared to the S10 blazer this Jeep replaced in our household... I think I'm going to ask my dealer if they will cover checking the alignment because if that solves the puzzle I'd be so happy to not have to buy new tires the first year. I'd also be happy not to buy new tires and still have the exact same issue happening on ice if it really was an alignment problem all along...
Yours wouldn't be the first that is out of alignment from the factory, every one I test drove when buying mine and troubleshooting issues with mine was noticeably out of alignment. I think Mudman1 had the same issue as well.

Jeep is replacing mine so I haven't messed with asking them to do an alignment I imagine it would depend on the dealer but most would at least check it for free around here.
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post #21 of 43 Old 11-28-2017, 08:30 PM
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I wish I could rename this thread to "stock tires woes?" or something like that, someday in the future droves of 2nd gen compass owners are going to find this thread while searching for info about larger tires and be angry that I didn't actually do it...

But anyways, I have a new theory to run by you guys. I've been so zoned in on the idea that the OEM tires are probably crap that I never entertained the possibility that perhaps my brand new jeep came right out of the gate with an alignment issue. Seems unlikely, right? But it could explain everything. Excessive negative camber or some way out of spec toe-in could be creating some significant lateral thrust that isn't noticeable on dry pavement but shines when one or more sides of the vehicle hit ice

Honestly I think it would make more sense than just bad tires, because bad tires alone should still probably go straight over ice until someone starts shaking the wheel excessively, but what I have experienced is that the instant one or both sides of the vehicle hits ice, the whole vehicle moves left and right. Its not a twisting motion (as I have experienced in other cars with bald tires), its the whole vehicle staying pointed mostly straight ahead but strafing left and right rapidly. So if both sides have a lot of camber thrust, or toe is excessively in/out, it would make sense the car would push left and right on a low traction surface.

Like I said on dry its not an issue. Handling on dry pavement is amazing, almost too good to be true compared to the S10 blazer this Jeep replaced in our household... I think I'm going to ask my dealer if they will cover checking the alignment because if that solves the puzzle I'd be so happy to not have to buy new tires the first year. I'd also be happy not to buy new tires and still have the exact same issue happening on ice if it really was an alignment problem all along...
I'm watching this thread... hoping that you are the guinea pig.
We haven't had any snow in the hills yet, but hearing your issues I'm just about to throw out the stock ContiPros and get something else - before we go up to the hills this winter.
while I hope the alignment helps, this rating from Tirerack doesn't bode well for the ContiPro tires:
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post #22 of 43 Old 11-30-2017, 03:34 PM Thread Starter
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Alignment Results:

Here are the results of the alignment, toe was significantly off on all four wheels so they corrected that and sent me out the door.

It has been warmer and dry the past week here and the forecast is looking like it will be maybe quite some time before we get any more slippery weather for me to know if it made a difference. I don't know much more than whatever 10 minutes of google searching has taught me about alignment specifications so I don't know how big a deal these toe settings were or if they were a little off or way off. Will anxiously await some bad weather I guess.

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post #23 of 43 Old 11-30-2017, 04:58 PM
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Here are the results of the alignment, toe was significantly off on all four wheels so they corrected that and sent me out the door.

It has been warmer and dry the past week here and the forecast is looking like it will be maybe quite some time before we get any more slippery weather for me to know if it made a difference. I don't know much more than whatever 10 minutes of google searching has taught me about alignment specifications so I don't know how big a deal these toe settings were or if they were a little off or way off. Will anxiously await some bad weather I guess.

That looks pretty far out to me.
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post #24 of 43 Old 05-09-2018, 05:18 PM Thread Starter
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This is going to be more of a post-to-future-self since this thread kinda documents my whole thought process and discovery for tire sizes on my limited, so feel free to ignore.

I need to go in and get my crappy stock tires balanced, they have gotten a little shuddery at highway speed as if a weight has fallen off or something, I will first clean each rim and pull out any large rocks in the tread to be sure but either way it got me thinking about tires again, I did a bit more googling and research and wanted to record my findings here for future me to remember.

I noticed today that the trailpass concept was apparently able to run a 34 pound 245/60R18 tire with a 1.5" lift kit. By the pictures it doesn't really look like they used any wheel spacers to do it. They don't specify of course if it can actually turn to full lock but for the moment assuming it is mostly fine, makes me take a closer look at the next size up Geolandar A/T G015 [235/60R18] which is 33 pounds (7 heavier than stock), and just slightly smaller than the 245/60R18.

My general conclusion, then, is that if I get the 1.5" lift I can probably get away with the 235/60R18 (just barely), with which I would enjoy a much beefier stance and a roughly total gain of 2.2" of ground clearance. Sounds great! To sweeten the deal, somehow the 235 G015s are about $100 cheaper for a set of four than the 225... that will help pay for part of the lift kit.

The main issue of course is that the Limited has the tallest final drive gearing so... just because they sqawked by on a modified trailhawk with the lowest final drive for short-term demonstration purposes doesn't mean its going to be a real great experience on a tall-geared daily driver... Mine is kinda lacking for power relative to my liking on the stock tires as it is, so some moderate power mods might need to be looked into (sounds like "if you give a mouse a cookie", doesn't it?)

Thats it for today's log, every few months or so I come back to this and start wondering if I remember what I think I discovered the last go round, so these notes will be a big help.

Edit: I couldn't stop my brain from gnawing on the gearing/power driveability problem so I hit the online calculators, at this time its pretty much a pipe dream BUT if I could someway somehow get the final drives of the latitude models (so, going from 3.73 to 3.833) then I could run that 235/60R18 tire and have roughly the same effective final drive as I do now on stock tires, so the computer would not need any modifications and the speedo would stay within 1-2 MPH of actual speed.

Jumping to the trailhawk final drive of 4.334 would probably be too extreme, on that tire I'd be going 7-8 MPH slower at highway speed than the speedo reading... although, it would probably give a boost to acceleration and possibly even fuel economy, hear me out, because if the computer *thinks* we are going 80 MPH (to get 72 MPH actual speed, the normal rate on a daily freeway commute) then the dumb thing would actually make regular use of 9th gear, and, with that much extra mechanical leverage the extra mass of the bigger heavier tires would be outweighed by the extreme gearing. Could I possibly have my big tire cake without taking a huge drop in highway cruising MPG? =O

Again, logging notes for way far off future self. Its too new and warranty is too fresh right now, but in 2-3 years I bet odds of getting my hands on some 4.334 ratio drivetrain components from a salvage yard are going to be much higher. If I win the lottery that timeline could move way up!

Changing the final drive would be a huge one-time pain in the arse but I just don't believe there is diddly squat to ream out of this 2.4 engine for extra power. They seem to have reached a point in automotive engineering where they are squeezing almost every pony they can get, there is no low hanging fruit. No easy horsepower to be gained from cold air intakes and catback exhausts. Turbocharging has become extremely tricky and expensive due to the extreme high precision of this engine intake control and multi-air stuffs. I honestly think re-gearing is going to end up being easier and more effective than trying to ramp up the engine output. Just wait for a trailhawk thats been massively T-boned to show up in a salvage yard, bolt in his whole transmission and RDM if its not high miles and then turn those big tires with ease.

Ok, done rambling again for a while!

Last edited by arudlang; 05-10-2018 at 03:51 PM.
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post #25 of 43 Old 05-24-2018, 08:15 PM
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Jumping to the trailhawk final drive of 4.334 would probably be too extreme, on that tire I'd be going 7-8 MPH slower at highway speed than the speedo reading... although, it would probably give a boost to acceleration and possibly even fuel economy, hear me out, because if the computer *thinks* we are going 80 MPH (to get 72 MPH actual speed, the normal rate on a daily freeway commute) then the dumb thing would actually make regular use of 9th gear, and, with that much extra mechanical leverage the extra mass of the bigger heavier tires would be outweighed by the extreme gearing. Could I possibly have my big tire cake without taking a huge drop in highway cruising MPG? =O
I always drive my trailhawk in manual mode. The 9th gear is useless at any speed under 80. At 80 it kind of works as long as you don't hit any type of incline. Otherwise you have to shift back down to 8th to maintain speed. I have used 9th gear maybe 3-4 times for a total of 20 minutes in the 2 months I have owned my compass.

EDIT: Also, the faster you get to 5th gear, the more MPGs you get. If you are around 30 mph, get into 5th gear instead of holding 4th. Less acceleration, but MPGs double when coasting.
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post #26 of 43 Old 05-25-2018, 10:09 AM
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I can confirm for All Season - All Terrain: General Grabber AT3 is a great new tire for 50/50 on/off road. Ultragrippy on ice and definitely not soft on warmer weather. Yes it's noisy on tarmac as any other AT. Pick wider instead of higher profile, it'll bring more stability, steering precision and comfort.
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post #27 of 43 Old 06-29-2018, 08:41 PM Thread Starter
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Leaving this here as a note to self to dig into more later:

ATTURO TRAIL BLADE X/T
235/60R18 107H XL
https://www.discounttirezone.com/ATT...L_p_10941.html
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post #28 of 43 Old 07-23-2018, 09:45 PM Thread Starter
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I'm going to have a separate post soon detailing my recent experience with a lengthy road trip towing a heavy box trailer, once that's done I may come back here and link it for future reference. Anyways the experience and knowledge gained from the 1000+ mile haul has convinced me that, for me personally, sticking with stock-size tires is the only way to go.

My new opinion is that if you anticipate lengthy and/or repeated towing at the maximum payload (ie, a big pop up camper or a stout boat), there simply is not enough motor in this car to afford the slightest loss in power that you can put to the ground. Larger tires are harder to turn due to the increased weight, diameter, and rolling resistance. How much harder they are to turn depends on how much larger you go from stock. Bumping up one size from say 225/55R18 to 235/55/R18 may only result in a 2-3% effective loss of power that doesn't make it to the ground to move you because its being burnt up turning the mass of the larger tire. This may be acceptable for some people, some may even accept greater losses for the sake of even larger tires yet. Everyone has different uses and needs out of their Jeep.

For me, I make 100% full use of the available 180 horsepower and 175 lb ft of torque on a fairly regular basis. I've done gobs of short distance local towing and now, having crossed 15,000 miles on this 2,300 mile road trip I just completed, I've reached the conclusion that I simply can't afford to lose a drop of that extremely limited power for the vanity of larger, more rugged tires. There are other good reasons to stick to stock, such as keeping the speedometer and odometer reading correctly, maintaining factory gas mileage, keeping factory acceleration performance, and keeping the center of gravity where it was designed to be (I'm also nixing the idea of a lift kit in this conclusion). But pulling a loaded trailer hundreds of miles on the interstate, having just barely enough power to do so, and knowing that I plan to do it again and again has cemented this for me.

If I only ever pulled our 2000 lb boat to the local lakes I think I could deal with the losses from one size bigger tire, it would look great to fill out the wheel well just a little more, but I had hopes of acquiring a light travel trailer and exploring the states too and after pulling an enclosed box trailer this weekend I think a pop-up camper is the most this buggy can handle if you like to keep up with traffic and not cut fuel economy completely in-half. I'm teetering on the edge of being convinced I simply pull too much too often and need to upgrade to a grand cherokee but I don't think I'm at that stage. I am sure that I need to put every ounce of power this little 4-banger can produce into the pavement, however, so I'm abandoning the idea of bigger tires (and lift) and not looking back unless a decent bolt-on turbocharger product becomes available.

If my ramblings and thinking out loud helps out anyone who stumbles across this in the future, especially those of us with the 18 inch rims with a super limited selection of A/T tires that fit, then great. If it doesn't help, oh well, sorry to waste your time. It helps me to be able to look back and see how my thought process evolved as I learned and researched.
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post #29 of 43 Old 10-24-2018, 05:45 PM Thread Starter
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For anyone (even myself, when I decide to retrace my steps) who is following along, I've discovered another reason to avoid larger tires. In short, they exacerbate clearance issues for tire chains which we are sometimes legally required to have and/or use in certain mountainous parts of the country we vacation to.

Details in this post here on Tripod's thread on tire chains: https://www.myjeepcompass.com/forums...trailhawk.html
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post #30 of 43 Old 10-31-2018, 05:52 PM
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Do you have to reset or change some settings on the computer/ECU after changing to bigger diameter tires?


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