Oil consumption and no indicator for oil change - Page 2 - Jeep Compass Forum
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post #31 of 148 Old 11-29-2018, 09:43 PM
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We're at 14k miles. No leaks and didn't have to add a drop of oil on our 3500 mile trip.
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post #32 of 148 Old 11-30-2018, 03:20 PM
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Asking for a friend, did anyone get the oil consumption issues corrected? I've had several members privately message me recently asking If I ever remediated it, answer in short.... you can't. They won't fix it. They will tell you to kick rocks, do oil consumptions tests and waste your time before the powertrain warranty expires. I just told one guy to cite in the manual on what page does it say it's OK to burn the amount of oil some users are saying it's doing? Not in there? Then stop stalling and fix the problem.
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post #33 of 148 Old 12-01-2018, 04:28 AM
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As a former GM tech of 25 years and possessing MASTER ASE certs, I tell you oil consumption should NOT be high. I don't care what the dealer says. There are MANY Compasses out there that do not use oil or VERY little. The engine has a mechanical problem. If it's under warranty, TAKE IT BACK! They will lose if you take them to court. The warranty contract binds them legally. I have seen this MANY times (I have been in the automotive business for 46 years). Anyone that needs help please contact me. I can help you navigate the dealer system. Also in the back of your owners manual, you will find a 800 number to complain to the manufacturer. When you tell them you are going to place your complaints online, you will get their attention. NO manufacturer wants negative publicity all over the internet. It hurts their sales and ruins their image. The squeaky wheel gets the grease. Hope this helps.
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post #34 of 148 Old 12-03-2018, 02:00 AM
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I'm reporting back. I had my oil changed about 1000 miles ago and I was down less than a quart before the change. Since then I've used virtually no oil, so maybe we are just dealing with an unusually long break-in period. I just turned 19,000 miles tonight.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Now I admit I drive a lot of miles. In six months I've racked up more than most people drive in a year. Obviously excessive oil consumption is a concern for me, and it probably feels worse for someone who has had their Compass for a couple years and is still experiencing oil consumption. On the bright side maybe I've gotten past the worst of it and maybe there is hope for others who are wondering if the oil consumption will ever drop. There might be light at the end of the tunnel -- its just a 20,000 mile tunnel.

Anybody's Compass still sucking up oil after 20,000 miles?

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post #35 of 148 Old 12-03-2018, 12:39 PM
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I'm reporting back. I had my oil changed about 1000 miles ago and I was down less than a quart before the change. Since then I've used virtually no oil, so maybe we are just dealing with an unusually long break-in period. I just turned 19,000 miles tonight.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Now I admit I drive a lot of miles. In six months I've racked up more than most people drive in a year. Obviously excessive oil consumption is a concern for me, and it probably feels worse for someone who has had their Compass for a couple years and is still experiencing oil consumption. On the bright side maybe I've gotten past the worst of it and maybe there is hope for others who are wondering if the oil consumption will ever drop. There might be light at the end of the tunnel -- its just a 20,000 mile tunnel.

Anybody's Compass still sucking up oil after 20,000 miles?
im @ almost 18k since may. no oil usage in any of the changes.
now i change every 5k miles, so 3 changes so far

2018 Compass Latitude
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post #36 of 148 Old 12-06-2018, 11:14 AM
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I think that if this Multiair engine works by evaporating the oil, then the likelihood of loosing some oil is too big. Oil becomes a gas and then its molecules are a lot smaller and they can squeeze and scape out of the engine easily...


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post #37 of 148 Old 12-06-2018, 12:08 PM
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well, being picky here, the oil doesn't evaporate and the molecules don't become smaller. However, when you spray oil from a nozzle for a purpose such as the oil spray cooling of the pistons, some of the oil becomes aerosolized. That just means that some of the oil droplets are so small that they won't settle out by gravity. The question then is what happens to that portion of the oil, and is enough oil becoming aerosolized to account for the oil loss. And why does it happen in some engines but not others.
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post #38 of 148 Old 12-06-2018, 02:37 PM
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well, being picky here, the oil doesn't evaporate and the molecules don't become smaller. However, when you spray oil from a nozzle for a purpose such as the oil spray cooling of the pistons, some of the oil becomes aerosolized. That just means that some of the oil droplets are so small that they won't settle out by gravity. The question then is what happens to that portion of the oil, and is enough oil becoming aerosolized to account for the oil loss. And why does it happen in some engines but not others.


If the oil becomes aerosolized, then it is easier for it to scape through small holes in the engine if some parts haven’t been sealed completely.


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post #39 of 148 Old 12-06-2018, 03:38 PM
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well it should be pulled out of the crankcase by the PCV system.
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post #40 of 148 Old 12-06-2018, 10:54 PM
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I think its a combination of looser tolerances and thinner oil. I never heard of 0-20 until I got my Compass.
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post #41 of 148 Old 12-06-2018, 11:29 PM
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I think its a combination of looser tolerances and thinner oil. I never heard of 0-20 until I got my Compass.
Yeah its mostly used for race car engines. Not a common consumer grade oil (at least up until last 3-5 years).
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post #42 of 148 Old 12-07-2018, 12:08 AM
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What if you use thicker oils? Will it stop the big consumption?


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post #43 of 148 Old 12-07-2018, 03:36 AM
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What if you use thicker oils? Will it stop the big consumption?

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I'm no expert, but from what I understand that's not a good idea. Apparently the oil is sprayed (misted) instead of squirted where it needs to go. Thicker oil won't spray the way thinner oil will.

The first time I noticed my oil was low (below the 'safe' range on the dipstick) all I had was a quart of 5w-20. Since there were 3 quarts already in the crankcase with which to dilute it, I figured close was good enough -- certainly better than running it 3 pints low. So I did it once in a pinch, but I wouldn't make a practice of it.
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post #44 of 148 Old 12-07-2018, 05:12 AM
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What if you use thicker oils? Will it stop the big consumption?


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You are more likely to get some type of check engine light due to the reason @Jasmine explained. On top of that, the engine uses electro-hydraulic valve actuators where the engine oil acts as the hydraulic fluid. This determines the timing and the amount of lift Using an oil with different thickens can cause that function to not operate properly (and again cause a CEL).

https://www.allpar.com/mopar/world-engine.html

Tigershark multi-air engine gets a lot of sh*t, but it is quite sophisticated and expensive for a low-end engine. Normally these kinds of technologies are used in high performance engines to reduce internal friction and improve power. Fiat's know-how with Ferrari and Maserati engines must have helped alot with development.
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post #45 of 148 Old 12-07-2018, 11:51 AM
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Then we are not talking about oil consumption here. There is no oil being burnt here. We have to be talking about oil loss or leaked oil in the form of gas.


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post #46 of 148 Old 12-07-2018, 01:55 PM
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Then we are not talking about oil consumption here. There is no oil being burnt here. We have to be talking about oil loss or leaked oil in the form of gas.


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Right.
It would be interesting connecting these oil loss cases with a place of engine assembly. I guess some FCA facilities should reprogram their robots. Definitely shouldn't be a design flaw.

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post #47 of 148 Old 12-07-2018, 02:26 PM
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It's not 'oil consumption' as typically thought of, IMO. On an old or very high mileage engine, oil can be burned in the combustion chambers due to excessive clearance (wear) between the piston rings and cylinder walls. I think that is really unlikely to be the cause in these new engines, but, it is easy to check for so why not do a cylinder leakdown test. From the various unfortunate owner's stories I don't recall it being mentioned. These sure aren't iron 360's or 440's but the principle is the same.
On the Multiairs, if oil isn't visibly leaking out but large amounts of oil are disappearing, well, where does it go? Seems likely it get's pulled out of the crankcase as an oil mist or aerosol by the PCV system, which in turn feeds into the engine intake and is burned off in the engine or cat. Another simple test therefore would be to observe the tailpipe during a cold start - blue-ish smoke indicating oil.
Oil spray/oil mist systems are common nowadays in industrial rotating equipment, which I have some experience in However they are vulnerable to oil contamination. It doesn't take much to negatively affect the nozzles. Typically the major source of contamination is when oil is changed or topped up, and avoiding that requires strict attention to cleanliness and avoiding ingress of unfiltered air. Example as you take oil out of a barrel outside air is being drawn in, so the barrel itself needs an intake filter. Another problem is incorrect oil, for example while transferring oil from barrel to crankcase you must use a clean container, no residue from other oil left in the container. In my experience with local FCA dealers they have trouble doing a proper oil change in any case, so I ****ING HIGHLY DOUBT they follow correct oil handling procedures. And if you as the owner are dutifully pulling the dipstick and checking the level, you too are likely contaminating the oil.
Long story short my guess is that the some nozzles are off spec from the start, or get contaminated at the factory or during oil changes. Resulting in poor spray patterns causing more oil mist or aerosols than normal, causing oil to 'disappear' out the tailpipe.
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post #48 of 148 Old 12-09-2018, 01:10 PM
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If you find out that your Compass is one of the faulty ones that has a not normal oil consumption, will the warranty cover it?


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post #49 of 148 Old 12-09-2018, 04:48 PM
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If you find out that your Compass is one of the faulty ones that has a not normal oil consumption, will the warranty cover it?


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What they consider as normal oil consumption is very high, something like a qt of oil every 1000 miles. So you need to have a car with absurdly high oil consumption to get covered by the warranty.


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post #50 of 148 Old 12-10-2018, 09:33 PM
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You probably need an engine.

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post #51 of 148 Old 12-12-2018, 09:35 PM
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No excessive oil consumption here. I was able to get about 7500 miles before the oil change required message came on.
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post #52 of 148 Old 12-13-2018, 12:38 AM
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No excessive oil consumption here. I was able to get about 7500 miles before the oil change required message came on.
I think the oil consumption on the second generation Compass is like the rusty subframes on the first generation. Most don't have the problem, but those who do have it, its a big problem.

FCA needs to do something besides saying "its normal" or "its designed that way."

I'll bet you dollars to donuts that even while denying it, they're working on a solution. Nothing retro, however; just going forward.

Early Patriots & Compasses were notorious leakers -- mostly from the sunroofs, but many in other places. In later years the problem seems to have gone away, but I never saw any admission of faulty design.

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post #53 of 148 Old 12-13-2018, 01:18 AM
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Further thought: Seems most first year vehicles from any manufacturer have problems. However well they intend to test, they simply can't/don't find every defect. Once the new vehicle is out and there are thousands of owners driving thousands of miles they discover more weak points and will hopefully make an effort to correct them. As above, I doubt they'll admit to a mistake, but if they have any sense at all they are aware of forums like this, and so they are aware of the problem. That's why they have JeepCares monitor this site -- they must be reporting back what they read on here and other similar sites. One angry owner may be a whiner, but when they see a pattern and threads like this, they gotta realize . . .

By the end of the model year they'll probably tighten the tolerances, redesign the rings, or whatever it is that they need to do, and we won't hear about this problem any more. If they're really conscientious they may even come up with a stop-gap fix, like an oil level monitor. (Face it, most people don't check their oil as often as they should, especially in new cars.)

I think they've put a vehicle on the market that was pretty good, but not completely ready. Companies have been doing this since there have been automobiles, or for that matter, I suppose any product. Look at how computer software hits the market -- seems to me they're patching stuff almost immediately.
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post #54 of 148 Old 12-13-2018, 11:29 AM
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Got this little joke in my e-mail this morning. I think it speaks to my point.

A software manager, a hardware manager, and a marketing manager are driving to a meeting when a tire blows. They get out of the car and look at the problem.
The software manager says, "I can't do anything about this - it's a hardware problem."
The hardware manager says, "Maybe if we turned the car off and on again, it would fix itself."
The marketing manager says, "Hey, 75% of it is working - let's ship it!"
[https://gcfl.net/archive.php?funny=7898]
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post #55 of 148 Old 12-13-2018, 07:59 PM
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Got this little joke in my e-mail this morning. I think it speaks to my point.

A software manager, a hardware manager, and a marketing manager are driving to a meeting when a tire blows. They get out of the car and look at the problem.
The software manager says, "I can't do anything about this - it's a hardware problem."
The hardware manager says, "Maybe if we turned the car off and on again, it would fix itself."
The marketing manager says, "Hey, 75% of it is working - let's ship it!"
[https://gcfl.net/archive.php?funny=7898]
Lol it reminded me of this cartoon that I love

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post #56 of 148 Old 12-15-2018, 06:01 PM
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Oil consumption and no indicator for oil change

What if you find traces of oil around the oil pump, the valves or the cylinders on the outside? Can you sue FCA on that basis and using that as an evidence of a defective engine and claim the warranty to cover an engine replacement?


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post #57 of 148 Old 12-15-2018, 09:06 PM
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What if you find traces of oil around the oil pump, the valves or the cylinders on the outside? Can you sue FCA on that basis and using that as an evidence of a defective engine and claim the warranty to cover an engine replacement?


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If it is leaking oil and if the car is under warranty, they need to fix it. But keep in mind, it needs to leak, not seeping or splash of oil. If you show they a smear of oil around a part, they wont accept that as a leak unless they can see it leaking. Also they most likely not replace the engine, but just fix what ever part is leaking.

If it is outside warranty, they will do nothing. Also if they found out you used wrong oil (or oil that doesn't comply with their recommendations), bad gas, modified engine in anyway, etc. they can void the warranty. That is why you should not touch the engine of a car while it is under warranty.
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post #58 of 148 Old 12-17-2018, 05:16 PM
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I have the same problem with our brand new 2018 Compass. After only 2,000 miles the oil maintenance light came on. I knew it was way too early for an oil change so I decided to check the oil. I was shocked to find that no oil even registered. We took it to dealer (Woodland Hills) and they charged my daughter $100 to “diagnosis” the issue even though it is under warranty. They said they can only diagnosis by doing an oil change and bringing the Jeep back in 1,000 miles. My daughter forgot to bring it back at 1,000 miles. I checked the oil at 3,000 post oil change and the oil did not register again - it is unheard of for a new engine to burn through that much oil in 3,000 miles unless there is a problem! I know there is no leak because we have had parked for over a week at a time and no oil stains. Brought to a new dealer (Van Nuys) hoping for a better result but they pulled the same scam - you pay us $100 to diagnos our defect on a brand new car. Forced us to get another oil change and bring it back in 500 miles. We are at 400 miles and already oil is barely registering. I called Jeep/Chrysler HQ and spent 3-4 hours on different phone calls. Twice they offered to pay back the money the dealers scammed from us. Twice I uploaded both bills and emailed them to the designated address. I even got a phone call from someone saying they received the invoices and that the check was “in the mail.” But it has been weeks and no check has arrived. I am an attorney and know this is not legal. I am bringing the car back this week and if they don’t handle it correctly I will have no choice but to sue. And what a waste of money for them. They will have to take back the car AND pay attorneys’ fees. Why not just do the right thing and avoid the costs of attorneys and the bad publicity?
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post #59 of 148 Old 12-17-2018, 06:34 PM
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I have the same problem with our brand new 2018 Compass. After only 2,000 miles the oil maintenance light came on. I knew it was way too early for an oil change so I decided to check the oil. I was shocked to find that no oil even registered. We took it to dealer (Woodland Hills) and they charged my daughter $100 to “diagnosis” the issue even though it is under warranty. They said they can only diagnosis by doing an oil change and bringing the Jeep back in 1,000 miles. My daughter forgot to bring it back at 1,000 miles. I checked the oil at 3,000 post oil change and the oil did not register again - it is unheard of for a new engine to burn through that much oil in 3,000 miles unless there is a problem! I know there is no leak because we have had parked for over a week at a time and no oil stains. Brought to a new dealer (Van Nuys) hoping for a better result but they pulled the same scam - you pay us $100 to diagnos our defect on a brand new car. Forced us to get another oil change and bring it back in 500 miles. We are at 400 miles and already oil is barely registering. I called Jeep/Chrysler HQ and spent 3-4 hours on different phone calls. Twice they offered to pay back the money the dealers scammed from us. Twice I uploaded both bills and emailed them to the designated address. I even got a phone call from someone saying they received the invoices and that the check was “in the mail.” But it has been weeks and no check has arrived. I am an attorney and know this is not legal. I am bringing the car back this week and if they don’t handle it correctly I will have no choice but to sue. And what a waste of money for them. They will have to take back the car AND pay attorneys’ fees. Why not just do the right thing and avoid the costs of attorneys and the bad publicity?

Oil maintenance light does not come on due to low oil, nor does it come on due to oil going bad/used. The system has no oil level sensor or a oil quality sensor. It is simply a duty based system that predicts when you would need an oil change based on your driving style. The system comes on between 2000 and 10000 miles depending on how you drive and how much load is put on the engine. The fact that it came on at 2000 miles indicates who ever is using the car is using it very roughly. And that would be a problem if you try to sue them. FCA already has a engine oil consumption bulletin that states 1qt per 2000 miles is normal, link below (I am not saying it is normal, but since they assume it to be normal, it would be difficulty to argue with them on court that it is a defect). Another issue is they explicitly state that this doesn't not apply to cars that are driven aggressively, high speed, high RPM, etc. The fact that oil change indicator came in in 2000 miles indicates the car was driven this way. If you sue them, they will just download the driving history from the cars computer and say that the reason why it burned oil was because it was driven rough, especially since the car is within engine break in period for the first 10000 miles.


https://chrysler.oemdtc.com/682/engi...12-2016-fca-us


Another question, how are you measuring the oil? It needs to be done 5 minutes after a completely warmed engine is tuned off. If you do it for a cold engine that sat overnight, it will register ~0.5qts lower, depending on how cold is it outside. Also consider that many owners reported engine consuming oil for the first ~10000k miles that gradually slows down and stop.

I also never heard any dealer charging a diagnostic fee for a car under warranty, you should definitely get that money back. I would fill a complain to FCA about those dealers since that is definitely a scam.
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post #60 of 148 Old 12-17-2018, 07:37 PM
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I have the same problem with our brand new 2018 Compass. After only 2,000 miles the oil maintenance light came on. I knew it was way too early for an oil change so I decided to check the oil. I was shocked to find that no oil even registered. We took it to dealer (Woodland Hills) and they charged my daughter $100 to “diagnosis” the issue even though it is under warranty. They said they can only diagnosis by doing an oil change and bringing the Jeep back in 1,000 miles. My daughter forgot to bring it back at 1,000 miles. I checked the oil at 3,000 post oil change and the oil did not register again - it is unheard of for a new engine to burn through that much oil in 3,000 miles unless there is a problem! I know there is no leak because we have had parked for over a week at a time and no oil stains. Brought to a new dealer (Van Nuys) hoping for a better result but they pulled the same scam - you pay us $100 to diagnos our defect on a brand new car. Forced us to get another oil change and bring it back in 500 miles. We are at 400 miles and already oil is barely registering. I called Jeep/Chrysler HQ and spent 3-4 hours on different phone calls. Twice they offered to pay back the money the dealers scammed from us. Twice I uploaded both bills and emailed them to the designated address. I even got a phone call from someone saying they received the invoices and that the check was “in the mail.” But it has been weeks and no check has arrived. I am an attorney and know this is not legal. I am bringing the car back this week and if they don’t handle it correctly I will have no choice but to sue. And what a waste of money for them. They will have to take back the car AND pay attorneys’ fees. Why not just do the right thing and avoid the costs of attorneys and the bad publicity?
Hey Mjlads,

We're sorry to hear this has happened, and we can certainly look into your case a bit further. Please PM us with your VIN or case number!

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