Airdam - Jeep Compass Forum
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post #1 of 23 Old 07-27-2018, 06:21 PM Thread Starter
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Airdam

Hi

Couple of questions about the little airdam under the front bumper:

1. If you stick the nose of the car over a kerb does the airdam catch?
2. If it does catch is it flexible enough to shrug this off?
3. Is it removable or part of the bumper?
4. If it was removed how much difference would it make to the mpg? I suite thatís why itís there but canít imagine it makes more than 1-2 mpg difference

Hopefully someone has some experience I can draw on rather than finding out the hard way...

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post #2 of 23 Old 07-27-2018, 09:29 PM
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On our 2nd Gen Limited it clears the curbs just fine. It is a bit flexible so in most cases I would expect it to flex when encountering an obstacle. It is not easily removable from what I have seen, there is a seam that a person could maybe cut along carefully but I don't plan to bother.

I wouldn't worry about it until you actually hit something with it. People are always obsessing over theoretical issues that have not been proven to be actual problems yet (even I do this). Removing it because you *think* you are going to scrape it at some point really makes no sense, especially in the face of potentially permanently losing 1 MPG over it. If you scrape it you scrape it, big deal. I have driven in deep snow and down logging roads with no issues.
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post #3 of 23 Old 07-27-2018, 10:02 PM
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I doubt airdam has any major influence on the overall MPG. Trailhawk trim doesn't have the airdam and it has the same MPG with other trims. Any difference would definitely not be close to 1mpg.

I assume airdam is more of a cosmetic addition and it is there to prevent you from accidentally hitting the underside of the oil pan or the exhaust to the kerb or something else (as trailhawks that dont have the airdam has a skid plate under the engine).
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post #4 of 23 Old 07-28-2018, 03:46 AM
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The positive effect of air dams on gas mileage is super well known in the automotive world at this point. The Latitude and Sport trims rate 1 and 2 more MPG rating highway than the trailhawks do so it is not accurate to say they get the same mileage. Close, but not quite and the lower air dam may well be the reason why but there are a bunch of factors at play between the trims with different final drive gear ratios and different transmissions and such. The way the EPA tests doesn't let the subtle differences shine but the differences are there in the real world.

The lower air dam doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything. Its a bitty piece of plastic, it won't stop you or even slow you down if you are driving over something it doesn't clear. It will either bend or break. The oil pan, exhaust, and everything else under the car is more than high enough that any trim level of the 2nd gen compass can easily clear any standard curb anywhere. Most skid plates on trailhawks will never touch anything in the entire life of the car. Skid plates are for rock crawling. Serious rock crawlers don't do it in a Compass. Marketing put skid plates on the TH Compass as a ploy to make people feel like they are included in some kind of cool kids club. Meanwhile, all us non-trailhawk guys shrug our shoulders and drive our compasses through all the same stuff the TH Compass guys do.
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post #5 of 23 Old 07-28-2018, 05:39 AM
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Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
The positive effect of air dams on gas mileage is super well known in the automotive world at this point. The Latitude and Sport trims rate 1 and 2 more MPG rating highway than the trailhawks do so it is not accurate to say they get the same mileage. Close, but not quite and the lower air dam may well be the reason why but there are a bunch of factors at play between the trims with different final drive gear ratios and different transmissions and such. The way the EPA tests doesn't let the subtle differences shine but the differences are there in the real world.

An air dam on a suv like these is an absolute joke both for more MPG and handling. Unless an air dam is nearing raking the road their effectiveness is minimal on MPG or might even be negative because they can increase frontal area while at the same time be to high to cut airflow from under the vehicle. However something they can do is force more air to pass through the lower grill work and increase cooling effectiveness of the radiator and drop underhood temps. The very slight MPG difference in the Trailhawk is mostly about gearing and as someone mentioned in another thread weight they weigh more than even I thought they did due to those skid plates and the addition of the full size spare. The Trailhawks 9 speed auto is the same 9 speed all other trims get with just with a different final drive and programming. As near as I can tell MPG has been on pretty spot on with EPA and numbers for the trailhawk which did not differ or differ much from other trims as the Trailhawk is tossed in with all other trims in EPA MPG.


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Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
The lower air dam doesn't prevent anyone from doing anything. Its a bitty piece of plastic, it won't stop you or even slow you down if you are driving over something it doesn't clear. It will either bend or break. The oil pan, exhaust, and everything else under the car is more than high enough that any trim level of the 2nd gen compass can easily clear any standard curb anywhere. Most skid plates on trailhawks will never touch anything in the entire life of the car. Skid plates are for rock crawling. Serious rock crawlers don't do it in a Compass. Marketing put skid plates on the TH Compass as a ploy to make people feel like they are included in some kind of cool kids club. Meanwhile, all us non-trailhawk guys shrug our shoulders and drive our compasses through all the same stuff the TH Compass guys do.
I can say 100% if ours had an airdam it would have been damaged or completely ripped of a few times over by now!!!

You keep playing this notion that the Trailhawk is just about marketing I don't know if you never looked at the differences or just don't want to acknowledge the differences. Trailhawks are slightly lifted this gives not only more ground clearance but better breakover angles and the front/rear fascia designed to give much better approach and departure angles. The programming for the transmission and brakes is much different Brake lock differential programming in rock mode is much more aggressive and again the gearing is more tuned to to give more torque down to the ground at slower speeds.

Then there are the skid plates your down playing that will see use in many Trailhawks. Then as Mud man posted the front skid stiffens up the whole front end of the Compass. Our skid plates have some scrapes in them already and we have been just running rough forestry roads so far with rougher trails planned that I need to scout out first. Could you drive through what we have maybe so far but you would be packing your air dam on the roof on your way back home and might even have to buy some parts before you can leave if you catch some of these rocks sticking up out of the road with an oil pan or something.

Now no your not going to be doing any crazy rock crawling in even the Trailhawk. However we have driven though some mini rock gardens where the lift and skids were needed and run up inclines that put those increased approach/departure angles and breakover angle to the test.

Take your Limited and do what they are doing in this video if it is still in one piece then maybe you stand a chance of proving your point of the Trailhawk just being about marketing.

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post #6 of 23 Old 07-28-2018, 07:29 AM Thread Starter
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Thanks for the replies guys. I am asking about the airdam because the rest of the car has really good clearance compared to other cars in its class except for the airdam which really stands for out as a low point (sic). My recent previous cars (Kuga & Yeti) were similar size with slightly lower overall clearance but were much better at the nose as no airdam. If I scuff it then so be it but in my mind it would better not to be there than be there and be scuffed...

I only suggested an effect on mpg as thatís what mfgs are all chasing now and I canít see any other good reason for it. I am not convinced that it would provide much/any protecti9n to the underside especially as there is a full cover behind it anyway.
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post #7 of 23 Old 07-28-2018, 01:41 PM
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If you think a nearly imperceptible 2 centimeter lift is worth mentioning in normal conversation, you might be a Compass trailhawk owner drinking the trailhawk marketing koolaid

If you aren't even talking a full inch, nobody cares. You are just regurgitating the same marketing bullet-points that got you to buy. Nobody has ever come back from a trail and said "aw gee, if I just had two more centimeters, I would have made it!" Nobody brags to their buddies "Yeah man, I put a 2 cm lift on the truck this weekend!" 2 cm? Why even bother??

If you think a couple of skid plates are a big deal, you might be a Compass trailhawk owner drinking the trailhawk marketing koolaid

Ever stop and think about the hundreds of thousands of pickup trucks in the world that do not have skid plates? Most everything that is exposed on the bottom of the vehicle is already pretty tough, and can withstand snow/mud/light scrapes/etc. Skid plates were never a "thing" until rock crawling and even then, you having them on your Compass is from the same vein as the guy who has a paddle shifter on his economy car. Its inspired by more powerful, more capable cars but of dubious use to the average person.

If you think a 20:1 "craw ratio" is cool, even though all the other trim models have at least 17:1, you might be a Compass trailhawk owner drinking the trailhawk marketing koolaid.

This one they really hype up in their marketing and I just don't get it, neither do truck owners who are used to seeing 40-60:1. If the other models weren't even close it would be one thing, but even the Limited ends up with 17.x:1 so why brag about 20?

If you think breakover and departure angles are critically important, but you also never heard of them in your life until you started researching buying a Compass, you might be a Compass trailhawk owner drinking the trailhawk marketing koolaid

In this case just look at the OP here. All he cares about, all most of us care about, is "does it clear the average curb and normal day-to-day obstacles?". The answer, for all trim levels, is "yes". You don't need the aggressive cut bumper or skid plates to go over a silly ole curb. Even the Subaru Crosstrek guys are shaking their heads at this point.


Look, the Trailhawk is marginally better tuned for off-road than the other 4x4 Compass models but you are really splitting hairs, and none of the TH upgrades hold a candle to even a base model Wrangler. The Compass curb-stomps all the competition in its class but it does that in all 4x4 trim levels. Going for TH trim means nothing more than you like to look as if you go where Wranglers go on a regular basis, and thats fine. But there are very, very few places a TH Compass can go that a 4x4 Latitude/Limited/etc cannot follow (stock tires not withstanding).
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post #8 of 23 Old 07-28-2018, 07:10 PM
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If you think a nearly imperceptible 2 centimeter lift is worth mentioning in normal conversation, you might be a Compass trailhawk owner drinking the trailhawk marketing koolaid
You are missing so much in this post that it is not funny.

Lift yes it is like .6 inches that does not seem like a lot but it can be the difference between getting stuck or not and a difference if an obstacle is going to impact something on the underside of the vehicle or clear it. Also .6 inches of lift help create those pretty sweet breakover and approach/ departure angles your down playing.

Who is going to benefit from this and how much will they benefit. Normal road driving forget about it nothing to be had. Snow/ice depends on how much snow you see in your area and how well roads are maintained. That extra ground clearance can mean the difference of going or getting stuck in your driveway here in the mountains. That low front airdam on other trims will be an issue up here when the snow/ice has been compacted with a big mound of snow hardened to near ice mounded up in the center of the lane.

Offroad no brainer no matter the terrain. Mud and sand ground clearance is very important take any two identical vehicles with skilled drivers and give one .6 inches of lift the one with the lift will go further into the soft stuff every time. Rocks ruts again no brainer more ground clearance will win every time with all other things being equal.


Skid plates. Wow do you really miss it here. The only place skid plates are useless is on the pavement all other terrains skid plates are a huge asset. Even in sand skids can help keep a vehicle from digging in to the point sand is hanging up other parts of the undercarriage. But there is a relationship between skids and ground clearance. If you have lots of ground clearance skids are just extra insurance. If you have a little crossover with just a modest ground clearance skid plates become much more important. Everything under most vehicles is not bulletproof even more so these days. Loads of cast aluminum just waiting to get cracked or a hole knocked into. Plastic or thin metal fuel tanks that can easily be damaged.

Trucks with skids yes look at most off road packages on trucks you will find skid plates. However remember that relationship between ground clearance and skid plates above well most 4x4 and pre-runner 2wd trucks have much more ground clearance so unless they are really wheeling in rough terrain skids become less important. In fact there has always been (long before rock crawling got big) a very interesting debate in the 4wd world about big lifts and articulation vs lockers and skid plates. This all ways comes down to where and how your wheeling.

Gearing. Again importance is dependent on where and how your wheeling. If you look at the wheeling we are doing with our Trailhawk having that extra bit of crawl ratio is critical. We are putting our tires up against rocks the size of things big trucks use for wheel chocks. We are pulling up on hills with steep faces. How steep well enough that we have had some bumper/skid plate brushing even on the trailhawk! These things are what make a 20:1 much more superior to a 17:1. I will be easing up things your going to have to having a running start to get up. Trust me this is not as fun as it sounds like because your increasing the chances for damage given the fact your lacking ground clearance and skid plates to boot. Even just running decent forestry roads here in the mountains your Jeep at 17:1 is going to be stressed more than the Hawks 20:1!

Approach,departure and breakover angles are and always have been important numbers to offroaders. In fact this is one of the first topics that come up for those using a 4x4 off road or wanting to learn about off roading. These are critical as they set the basic limits of a 4wd vehicle. The only places they don't play a huge role is on the pavement and in deep mud providing your not having to drive down into or out of a mud pit. The better the angles the more capable the vehicle. You can have kick butt gearing,tires or 4wd system. But if your bumper smacks into an obstacle before your tires find it then your usally not going anywhere. If you high center on top of something your stuck. Rear if it hits something backing up or hit while climbing you have damage and can end up with loss of traction to the rear tire. In any case unless you have front,rear and center protection on your vehicle your looking at body damage!!!


4wd/traction control and BLD tuning again is more important than you know. More aggressive tuning equals better capability of getting the power to the ground. This will mean going further in rougher terrain than other trims. It can be very compatible to limited slip vs locker. Higher gearing vs lower gearing. the computer is working to maximise everything put into the Compass to keep moving.

Now going piece by piece we can see the significance of each component. But now we look at them combined. It is like musical instruments each played alone can be beautiful but combine them into a single piece of music and the results are inspiring.


Agreed for this users post looking for a curb jumper the Trailhawk is over built for this purpose. But that low airdam is what started our journey more towards the Trailhawk we knew it would be an issue for us. We wanted a SUV that would never have an issue clearing curbs or rocks or whatever if it could not be more like an SUV we might as well have bought a car! If your just dealing with low curbs and don't venter further off road than a typical decently maintained gravel road other trims will be fine.

But that airdam is going to hit higher curbs and parking space dividers as such it is still subject to being damaged. In this case if it were me I would run the airdam and see if it became an issue. If it hit things often or was dragging it across things I would remove it and put it up someplace. Then if you go to sell or trade just put it back on.


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Look, the Trailhawk is marginally better tuned for off-road than the other 4x4 Compass models but you are really splitting hairs, and none of the TH upgrades hold a candle to even a base model Wrangler. The Compass curb-stomps all the competition in its class but it does that in all 4x4 trim levels. Going for TH trim means nothing more than you like to look as if you go where Wranglers go on a regular basis, and thats fine. But there are very, very few places a TH Compass can go that a 4x4 Latitude/Limited/etc cannot follow (stock tires not withstanding).

I think your confused about what most people that are going to use their Jeep off road are seeing in the Compass Trailhawk. We know the Jeep Wrangler is a much better vehicle for hardcore use. But for an everyday driver they kind of suck. Worse ride worse MPG,worse handling ect.

We know the 4x4 Compass in all trims is more capable than anything in this market segment. But the Trailhawk takes the Compass to a even higher capability level for a minimal cost from other trims. Every cost purchase price,MPG,ride quality,and handling are very minimal for the capabilities gained. Here is the trick I can't go everywhere the Wranglers go. A Wrangler can go everywhere we go but at a pretty big all around cost.

Now look at the video I posted turn off the volume because I don't think you get what they are saying anyhow. Instead focus on the Trailhawk and how it is handling each terrain and tell me the other trims are near this capable. Because I see the other trims stuck in the sand. On the rock yep stuck but this time sporting a lot of damage to the front bumper and forget the airdam it's gone you left that behind on the very first rough part before getting to the rocks. lol, rear bumper going to take damage. Now without the .6 inches of ground clearance and skid plates there would be a very good chance of damage to the underside fuel tank,oil pan,trans pan being the most likely to be damaged. Without the enhanced programming the Trailhawk gets the other trims are not going to be able to find enough grip to get through a lot of that. I say there is nothing the other trims do very much better than the Trailhawk but the Trailhawk will go a lot of places other trims are either not going to be able to go or and end up with damage if they do.

Oh and since you mentioned it yes we get the better tires right out the gate so we drive off the lot ready to go wheeling in the rough stuff!!!!

Lastly those Trailhawk and Trail Rated badges are earned and not just slapped on for marketing. If other trims were as capable they would at least get a trail rated badge. This is somthing Jeep got very good at is making sure that the trail rated badge means something and did not become just simple market hype.
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post #9 of 23 Old 07-29-2018, 11:40 AM
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Look, the Trailhawk is marginally better tuned for off-road than the other 4x4 Compass models but you are really splitting hairs, and none of the TH upgrades hold a candle to even a base model Wrangler. The Compass curb-stomps all the competition in its class but it does that in all 4x4 trim levels. Going for TH trim means nothing more than you like to look as if you go where Wranglers go on a regular basis, and thats fine. But there are very, very few places a TH Compass can go that a 4x4 Latitude/Limited/etc cannot follow (stock tires not withstanding).
I don't see the point. Yes if it was a Wrangler it would be better off road. If it was a Murciťlago it would be better on the track. If it was a Peterbilt it could haul cargo. If it had wings it could fly. Also why isn't it a submarine.

As far as having skidplates on a small SUV like a Compass, I would be perfectly happy to have them even if I never put a scratch on them in the entire life of the vehicle. I would also be perfectly happy to have a fire extinguisher and never use it, or a first aid kit, etc. These are all things that are totally useless unless you need them, but when you need them you really NEED them.
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post #10 of 23 Old 07-30-2018, 02:55 PM
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Clearly words alone won't get the idea across so I drew you fellows a nice little picture!

There are regular 4x4 Compasses, and then there are TH Compasses which are measurably more capable than the other 4x4 Compasses, both are way better than AWD sedans and lesser CUVs, but there is only a small gap between the TH Compass and the other 4x4 trims, while there is a large gap between the TH Compass and a "Real Truck" or other full-size vehicle with a transfer case (real low range more than double the TH), locking differential options, inches more ground clearance, etc.

Let me put it like this: You have to work really hard to find a trail or piece of terrain that falls into the narrow gap between a regular 4x4 Compass and a TH Compass, but people can point out places all over the map that no stock Compass will ever go but certain stock trucks and Wranglers will.

A 4x4 Compass is a 4x4 Compass. You don't get a transfer case, or better axles, or a real differential lock, your 20 mm of extra ground clearance doesn't mean diddly squat in the real world, most 4x4 trucks without skid plates will go places you can't, a tiny difference in gearing and programming doesn't gain you much to write home about either. There is almost nowhere you can go that I can't in the Limited trim 4x4, and I wager the capability gap is narrow enough as to be overshadowed by a thing called "Skill".

Again with the disclaimer: Tires are the biggest differentiating factor by far in deciding how far a Compass will make it in any given terrain. They are also the most easily changed part so I don't weight them hardly at all when comparing a TH Compass and a non.

You may feel good driving your TH Compass down a mediocre trail somewhere, soundly reassured by all the marginal off-road bits you have... but deep down the truth is almost anywhere you go... I could be right behind you making my way along just fine in my Limited trim. And while we sit here and argue about this and that, Wrangler and truck owners just shake their heads while driving circles around us both.
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post #11 of 23 Old 07-30-2018, 04:54 PM
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Clearly words alone won't get the idea across so I drew you fellows a nice little picture!

There are regular 4x4 Compasses, and then there are TH Compasses which are measurably more capable than the other 4x4 Compasses, both are way better than AWD sedans and lesser CUVs, but there is only a small gap between the TH Compass and the other 4x4 trims, while there is a large gap between the TH Compass and a "Real Truck" or other full-size vehicle with a transfer case (real low range more than double the TH), locking differential options, inches more ground clearance, etc.

Let me put it like this: You have to work really hard to find a trail or piece of terrain that falls into the narrow gap between a regular 4x4 Compass and a TH Compass, but people can point out places all over the map that no stock Compass will ever go but certain stock trucks and Wranglers will.

A 4x4 Compass is a 4x4 Compass. You don't get a transfer case, or better axles, or a real differential lock, your 20 mm of extra ground clearance doesn't mean diddly squat in the real world, most 4x4 trucks without skid plates will go places you can't, a tiny difference in gearing and programming doesn't gain you much to write home about either. There is almost nowhere you can go that I can't in the Limited trim 4x4, and I wager the capability gap is narrow enough as to be overshadowed by a thing called "Skill".

Again with the disclaimer: Tires are the biggest differentiating factor by far in deciding how far a Compass will make it in any given terrain. They are also the most easily changed part so I don't weight them hardly at all when comparing a TH Compass and a non.

You may feel good driving your TH Compass down a mediocre trail somewhere, soundly reassured by all the marginal off-road bits you have... but deep down the truth is almost anywhere you go... I could be right behind you making my way along just fine in my Limited trim. And while we sit here and argue about this and that, Wrangler and truck owners just shake their heads while driving circles around us both.
Just a thought from an impartial observer..

You arguing so much against the idea that there isn't any difference just makes it seem like you have buyer's remorse and are trying to justify your decision to yourself.
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post #12 of 23 Old 07-30-2018, 05:48 PM
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Clearly words alone won't get the idea across so I drew you fellows a nice little picture!

There are regular 4x4 Compasses, and then there are TH Compasses which are measurably more capable than the other 4x4 Compasses, both are way better than AWD sedans and lesser CUVs, but there is only a small gap between the TH Compass and the other 4x4 trims, while there is a large gap between the TH Compass and a "Real Truck" or other full-size vehicle with a transfer case (real low range more than double the TH), locking differential options, inches more ground clearance, etc.

Let me put it like this: You have to work really hard to find a trail or piece of terrain that falls into the narrow gap between a regular 4x4 Compass and a TH Compass, but people can point out places all over the map that no stock Compass will ever go but certain stock trucks and Wranglers will.

A 4x4 Compass is a 4x4 Compass. You don't get a transfer case, or better axles, or a real differential lock, your 20 mm of extra ground clearance doesn't mean diddly squat in the real world, most 4x4 trucks without skid plates will go places you can't, a tiny difference in gearing and programming doesn't gain you much to write home about either. There is almost nowhere you can go that I can't in the Limited trim 4x4, and I wager the capability gap is narrow enough as to be overshadowed by a thing called "Skill".

Again with the disclaimer: Tires are the biggest differentiating factor by far in deciding how far a Compass will make it in any given terrain. They are also the most easily changed part so I don't weight them hardly at all when comparing a TH Compass and a non.

You may feel good driving your TH Compass down a mediocre trail somewhere, soundly reassured by all the marginal off-road bits you have... but deep down the truth is almost anywhere you go... I could be right behind you making my way along just fine in my Limited trim. And while we sit here and argue about this and that, Wrangler and truck owners just shake their heads while driving circles around us both.
As someone who did many hours of offroading with a verity of cars and trucks, I can easily tell this is nonsense.

First you are saying, in terms of off road performance there is a bigger difference between a F150 and Compass compared to Compass and a regular car? On top of that you are over glorifying full sized trucks, a full size truck is a terrible off-road vehicle. Two axles are two far apart from each other on a full sized truck. Best off-road vehicles are the ones where two axles are as lose to each other as possible. If you take a regular 4X4 truck (like F150) to "real" offroading (not talking about driving in the woods), it will get stuck on anything that requires central ground clearance (break over angle) and would not be able to turn around most obstacles due to wide turning radius. I would probably prefer a Compass over a full-sized truck for that function, as with compass you at least have a chance.

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post #13 of 23 Old 07-30-2018, 06:58 PM
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Originally Posted by arudlang View Post


Clearly words alone won't get the idea across so I drew you fellows a nice little picture!

There are regular 4x4 Compasses, and then there are TH Compasses which are measurably more capable than the other 4x4 Compasses, both are way better than AWD sedans and lesser CUVs, but there is only a small gap between the TH Compass and the other 4x4 trims, while there is a large gap between the TH Compass and a "Real Truck" or other full-size vehicle with a transfer case (real low range more than double the TH), locking differential options, inches more ground clearance, etc.

Let me put it like this: You have to work really hard to find a trail or piece of terrain that falls into the narrow gap between a regular 4x4 Compass and a TH Compass, but people can point out places all over the map that no stock Compass will ever go but certain stock trucks and Wranglers will.

A 4x4 Compass is a 4x4 Compass. You don't get a transfer case, or better axles, or a real differential lock, your 20 mm of extra ground clearance doesn't mean diddly squat in the real world, most 4x4 trucks without skid plates will go places you can't, a tiny difference in gearing and programming doesn't gain you much to write home about either. There is almost nowhere you can go that I can't in the Limited trim 4x4, and I wager the capability gap is narrow enough as to be overshadowed by a thing called "Skill".

Again with the disclaimer: Tires are the biggest differentiating factor by far in deciding how far a Compass will make it in any given terrain. They are also the most easily changed part so I don't weight them hardly at all when comparing a TH Compass and a non.

You may feel good driving your TH Compass down a mediocre trail somewhere, soundly reassured by all the marginal off-road bits you have... but deep down the truth is almost anywhere you go... I could be right behind you making my way along just fine in my Limited trim. And while we sit here and argue about this and that, Wrangler and truck owners just shake their heads while driving circles around us both.


How cute you made up a little picture and think that makes your veiw some sort of fact. If I draw up a unicorn or a dragon does that make them real too? I would draw a pic too accept it is pointless as it would go above your head because it would point out how a vehicle is equipped and not the type reflects capability over given terrain. Because in the real world an average small 4x4 SUV very well may outperform a 4x4 full size truck/SUV in all around off road use.

Would you or even could you follow the Trailhawks in the video I posted? If you were really paying attention you would be smart enough to know in many of those situations it is highly unlikely you could even do so with the highest of skills. Unless your going to get out on every rock ledge and build ramps. Even then your looking at packing out parts of your Compass strapped to your roof or being towed out due to major damage. Even if we remove the extra ground clearance the rest of the Trailhawk package is going to come so much closer to keeping up with that Wrangler in all off-road situations than the other compass trims hands down! Sadly your Limited is just too limited I looked at them along with the Latitude before buying the Trailhawk I could clearly see the disadvantages the other trims have.

I'll add I have never said I can go anyplace a Wrangler or 4x4 specialty truck can go. But experience counts not only when driving but when you have driven and wrenched on lot of 4x4s and know where the advantages and limits are!

Now let's talk about what is sitting in my driveway right now shall we.

4x4 2dr Chevy Tracker auto lifted 29" AT tires,open diffs.
4x4 ford Ranger 5sp 31" mud grips,open diffs.
4x4 Chevy Suburban auto lowered 2" stock size AT tires,rear Gov lock diff
4x4 GMC Sonoma 5sp 29" AT tires rear Gov lock diff.
4x4 GMC Envoy auto stock/all weather tires

4x4 Jeep Compass Trailhawk not in the driveway all stock at the dealer getting 30-40 noise looked at. But we all know the specs.

4x4s I have owned wow where to start!

4x4 Jeep Cherokee XJ x 4 all 5sp lift and tires from stock to 6.5" on 35s
4x4 Jeep CJ on 33s.
4x4 FS Chevy truck x2 one stock one on 35s
4x4 Suzuki Samurai x 2 one stock one on 35s
4x4 Suzuki Sidekick 5sp stock
4x4 Honda CRV stock (least capable)
4x4 AMC Eagle spirit stock
4x4 International Scout Auto stock/tires front and rear diff locked full skid plates.

I'm not even going into AWD!

So you will have to excuse me in saying that cute little pic you made up is nothing but pure bull crap based on your own ramblings and I'm speaking from experience! Our Compass is the best all around capable 4x4 we have here at home. If had to drop to next most capable it would be a tie between the Tracker and the Sonoma. So 4x4 trucks DO NOT ALWAYS HAVE THE ADVANTAGE. It is much more about how a vehicle is equipped,its weight,its approach/departure and breakover angles,gearing and traction aids not what type it falls into. Then you have terrain to work with. Any true 4x4 enthusiast would know this! I have seen modified Suzuki Samurais wheel around stuck Humvees in competition because the Humvees were high centered. Ever try to high center a lifted Samurai you can do it but it takes a very special situation! But in other terrain Humvee has the advantage because of it's longer wheelbase/wheel track. Just the way the cookie crumbles when your off roading.
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post #14 of 23 Old 07-30-2018, 08:57 PM
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Haha, my goodness that little picture got the hornets nest stirred up! You guys really do live under the delusion that having trailhawk trim turns a extra-glorified fiat 500 into a killer off-road machine that [nearly] keeps up with Wranglers. Well, whatever helps you sleep at night.

In that video Jeep went a long, long ways out of their way to document all three or four rocks in that whole dessert that the Compass TH had just enough clearance for. I couldn't care less. While you guys sit here day in and day out telling other people about what you *think* their trim level can do I'm out actually doing things, like pulling our nearly 2000 pound fiberglass boat up a 15-20% grade dirt path with 8 inch deep washed-out ruts and holes. I don't leave the pavement looking for trouble but I do everything I ever want to without issue, so I speak up when people come on here and ask questions.

The trailhawk package is marketing genius, because they know if the only offered them the way I got mine people would mod the snot out of them so much faster. This way they have convinced most people to leave their poor vehicle alone at least for a few years, sell more of them, and sure the TH Compass is a great little machine but the point is all the other 4x4 trims are pretty much just as great and nearly as capable, because its all the same stuff. I already pointed out the differences in gearing are negligible and my personal experience has held that up, a centimeter or two of clearance and some plates that are really just there for backup because no sane person would attempt an obstacle that could cave it in anyways... its not much to point at. Despite a lot of theorizing about what would take off the bottom of the front bumper none of us have yet to do so. The day we bought our compass the road we live on was scraped down 12+ inches below grade to rebuild the road base and we just drove it and out of it until they were done, happy as can be. Bottom lip is still there. Pushed plenty of snow aside all winter here in Northern Minnesota, no ice berm was able to take out the lip either. I regularly hit up the worst things an average person is ever going to run up against and my "limited" experience is still telling me the trailhawk package is mainly marketing.

Hopefully you can see the obvious way I come to this conclusion. There has been NOTHING my limited trim has not been able to do for me so far that a Th could have. From local logging trails to deep snows of winter, continuous heavy trailer pulls, driving through deep ditches, pulling big boats out of the water on wet ramps... rest assured I'm still waiting to find the actual limit, could be any day now, but so far no luck.

I wish I knew the guy or gal who parked a silver TH near my work last week, it would be great to run them both through a local quarry or something and see how they do side by side. Not going to lie I was glad I had the limited after looking theirs over though, the tow hooks are nice but the whole front end just looks small and car-like compared to the bigger front-end of the others, and not as sharp without the chrome and having smaller wheels that also seemed car-like. Gosh, its almost like the whole vehicle was secretly based on a car...
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post #15 of 23 Old 07-30-2018, 10:54 PM
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My Jeep 4X4 Compass sport does a good job during winter driving. It gets me to work and back. I got the sports trim because it does not have all the gadgets that will need fixing and distract me. The Bluetooth is good enough for me. No problem over a year except a minor recall that fix my dashboard dimmer lights and that was a quick fix. I like this compass it reminds me of my old 83 AMC Eagle I use to have.
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post #16 of 23 Old 07-31-2018, 03:01 AM
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Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
Haha, my goodness that little picture got the hornets nest stirred up! You guys really do live under the delusion that having trailhawk trim turns a extra-glorified fiat 500 into a killer off-road machine that [nearly] keeps up with Wranglers. Well, whatever helps you sleep at night.
Wow man so much fail here I question if you or your Limited have been further off road than the shoulder of a well maintained road!!!!! I also start to question if your more than 12 years old from the tone of your post!

The stir over your pic is because it reflects someone that knows nothing about off roading! Only a fool would throw out the "extra-glorified fiat 500" line while driving a 4x4 Compass with a street racing inspired airdam that hangs down lower than ones found on many others of this class including a KIA!

If the Trailhawk is just an "extra-glorified fiat 500" that makes the Limited just a plain old Fiat 500! Again your throwing around this false chaim we are saying the Trailhawk can do everything the Wrangler does no one has said that. I don't know if this is an issue with your reading skills or what. I know what I bought and I don't lose any sleep over it!!!



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Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
In that video Jeep went a long, long ways out of their way to document all three or four rocks in that whole dessert that the Compass TH had just enough clearance for. I couldn't care less. While you guys sit here day in and day out telling other people about what you *think* their trim level can do I'm out actually doing things, like pulling our nearly 2000 pound fiberglass boat up a 15-20% grade dirt path with 8 inch deep washed-out ruts and holes. I don't leave the pavement looking for trouble but I do everything I ever want to without issue, so I speak up when people come on here and ask questions.
That video shows why the Trailhawk gets a Trail Rated badge and no other Compass trim does. Just because you don't have the balls to wheel like in the video does not mean the rest of us don't!!! What you can tow up a grade does not speak to your vehicles off road ability. The rest of it hate to tell you but you have lost credibility with me and I'm betting the same for anyone that is a true off road enthusiast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
The trailhawk package is marketing genius, because they know if the only offered them the way I got mine people would mod the snot out of them so much faster. This way they have convinced most people to leave their poor vehicle alone at least for a few years, sell more of them, and sure the TH Compass is a great little machine but the point is all the other 4x4 trims are pretty much just as great and nearly as capable, because its all the same stuff. I already pointed out the differences in gearing are negligible and my personal experience has held that up, a centimeter or two of clearance and some plates that are really just there for backup because no sane person would attempt an obstacle that could cave it in anyways... its not much to point at. Despite a lot of theorizing about what would take off the bottom of the front bumper none of us have yet to do so. The day we bought our compass the road we live on was scraped down 12+ inches below grade to rebuild the road base and we just drove it and out of it until they were done, happy as can be. Bottom lip is still there. Pushed plenty of snow aside all winter here in Northern Minnesota, no ice berm was able to take out the lip either. I regularly hit up the worst things an average person is ever going to run up against and my "limited" experience is still telling me the trailhawk package is mainly marketing.
Ask me slapping a low airdam and front/rear fascia on a 4x4 Jeep then selling to the same market as those looking for a sports car is marketing genius! As for why people with non-Trailhawk trim have not torn their Jeeps up is they know and realize the limits of their Jeep and thought about how they are going to use their Jeep so they are smart enough to not try to wheel their Compass as if it were a Trailhawk. Oh and skid plates have a purpose other than protecting they are also part being able to allow you to skid over an obstacle and not hang other part up on the obstacle. Your experience is limited you have proven that in your post so I don't expect you to realize how much more incapable that a Trailhawk.

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Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
Hopefully you can see the obvious way I come to this conclusion. There has been NOTHING my limited trim has not been able to do for me so far that a Th could have. From local logging trails to deep snows of winter, continuous heavy trailer pulls, driving through deep ditches, pulling big boats out of the water on wet ramps... rest assured I'm still waiting to find the actual limit, could be any day now, but so far no luck.
Your not doing anything that could not have been done in a far less capable crossover so of course your happy with how your Jeep is performing off road. You doing stuff you feel like could have been done in a Trailhawk is irrelevant. However the proof is the Trailhawk will still outperform your limited in a wide range of areas. If we had bought a latitude or limited we would have had damage already and found their limits within a week of ownership.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
I wish I knew the guy or gal who parked a silver TH near my work last week, it would be great to run them both through a local quarry or something and see how they do side by side. Not going to lie I was glad I had the limited after looking theirs over though, the tow hooks are nice but the whole front end just looks small and car-like compared to the bigger front-end of the others, and not as sharp without the chrome and having smaller wheels that also seemed car-like. Gosh, its almost like the whole vehicle was secretly based on a car...
Might be an interesting experiment for you if the place you pick can actually challenge the Trailhawk.

Really your going to knock the rugged sweet looking functional front end that looks like a Jeep on the Trailhawk while driving a limited that has a front end that looks very much like a Scion XB or maybe a Fiat 500 Abarth.
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post #17 of 23 Old 07-31-2018, 04:16 PM
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I doubt airdam has any major influence on the overall MPG. Trailhawk trim doesn't have the airdam and it has the same MPG with other trims. Any difference would definitely not be close to 1mpg.

I assume airdam is more of a cosmetic addition and it is there to prevent you from accidentally hitting the underside of the oil pan or the exhaust to the kerb or something else (as trailhawks that dont have the airdam has a skid plate under the engine).
I disagree that the Trailhawk gets the same as the rest. I see other trims getting mid to high 20s (25+ mpgs combined driving) Most of the posts from Trailhawk owners I've seen are saying less than that. I get 17-19 daily driving. I don't know about the airdam, but the larger, more AT type tire and ride height make a difference in milage. Don't care what the dealer sticker claims.
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post #18 of 23 Old 07-31-2018, 04:20 PM
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Originally Posted by Jim Heller View Post
I disagree that the Trailhawk gets the same as the rest. I see other trims getting mid to high 20s (25+ mpgs combined driving) Most of the posts from Trailhawk owners I've seen are saying less than that. I get 17-19 daily driving. I don't know about the airdam, but the larger, more AT type tire and ride height make a difference in milage. Don't care what the dealer sticker claims.
I get ~26 combined MPG with TH (21 city, 30 highway). MPG is mostly about driving style. Unless you are going +80mph, ride high will have very little influence on drag.

If someone is getting 30% drop in MPG, they should get the car checked. No amount of air drag can account for that much of additional gas consumption.

Last edited by Tripod; 07-31-2018 at 04:22 PM.
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post #19 of 23 Old 07-31-2018, 05:28 PM
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Sheesh, have some more koolaid Chris. And more than anything, try not to make unfounded assumptions about people. I find it tiresome to itemize and rattle off my credentials anytime someone wants to challenge them (maybe some day I'll make a bio and link it in a signature) but they are all besides the point anyways, either the information I'm giving out is accurate, or its not, and the other forum readers are free to weigh the evidence and put it with some google searching to draw their own conclusions. As soon as we devolve to the point of outright attacking each-other rather than the argument points we no longer have a productive discussion going.

Neither I nor the other readers have any use for us going back and forth about "well I owned this and that" and "I grew up in such and such driving blah blah blah". Yes, I've owned four trucks and two SUVs and grew up smashing them around the trails and forests of northern Minnesota. Real trails, by way, not some sanctioned dedicated play-pen with stickers and trail guides.. raw rocky muddy no-man's-land with overgrown abandoned logging trails privately owned and maintained by no one.

Nobody here cares.

My old man was an ASE certified master mechanic with whom I've spent thousands of hours in the garage turning every nut and bolt there is to turn, rebuilding engines and pulling transfer cases, swapping bent axles and driveshafts, fixing frame damage...

Still, none of this is hardly relevant. People can know things without necessarily having direct experience and/or academic background. (But sometimes it does help)

Now I'm not out to be attacking our own vehicles we all like so much but they are what they are, and they are primarily a re-worked-re-badged fiat car whose primary goal was high sales volume. Of the three or four companies that collaborated on this the Jeep division put forth the most minimal effort they were required to do. The engine comes from Chrysler, the drivetrain was outsourced, the interior and infotainment was primarily done by Chrysler. Jeep merely spec'd out the bare minimum required to willingly have their name put on it and thats what the bigger companies involved put forth but without overspending. It is what it is, and the trims are just that (trims).

They are marketing the vehicle to a wide audience and have adapted it slightly here and there to suit various personas and invoke certain lifestyles. Thats great. Everyone can get a Compass thats tuned for them. But they are all almost identical at heart.

You are convinced there is more added capability on the trailhawk trim than the evidence supports, owing to placing too much value on trivial things like a microscopic "lift", some skid plates you should never rely on, slightly higher bumpers and a negligible bit of different code for the same transmission. Oh, and we can't forget the final drive gearing... that one is still my favorite of all because not only can the average person easily see that the difference between 17:1 and 20:1 doesn't mean sh!t when the Rubicon is sporting 84:1, but I like how you tend to just plug your ears with your fingers and go "la la la la la" and pretend that me doing things like successfully pulling a 3500 pound trailer 1000 miles including through a mountain range doesn't demonstrate the un-sung capability that ALL the Compass 4x4 models have.

There is some narrow range where the capability of the TH exceeds the other 4x4 Compasses, no doubt, but its a gap so demonstrably small and meaningless for the life of me I don't know why we are still going back and forth on it. I only try to point that out to help others who are doing pre-purchase research (its still fine to buy a TH if thats the aura you want your vehicle to put off), and to try to help some of you keep your perceptions of reality in-check because you embarrass us all when you run around bragging about your 19.9 millimeter lift in a world where only differences measured in inches (plural) count.

We can agree to disagree, I don't give a hoot. But if I lived closer I'd really enjoy the chance to chase you down some trail you think is latitude/limited-proof because I'd enjoy every mile watching you fog up your mirrors steaming in rage when you find you can't shake the regular 4x4
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post #20 of 23 Old 07-31-2018, 07:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Heller View Post
I disagree that the Trailhawk gets the same as the rest. I see other trims getting mid to high 20s (25+ mpgs combined driving) Most of the posts from Trailhawk owners I've seen are saying less than that. I get 17-19 daily driving. I don't know about the airdam, but the larger, more AT type tire and ride height make a difference in milage. Don't care what the dealer sticker claims.
Tripod has it right there are a few things you have to look at with MPG and driving style has a lot to do with it then type of driving city/highway and terrain. After that things come into play like temperature,differences in fuel and Winter vs Summer fuel blends. I will tell you these things don't like hard climbs when it comes to MPG. This is what ends up costing us the most here in the mountains.

We usually see 22-23 MPG this number is a bit low but the vast majority is my wife's drive to and from work. Short trip low speed big hill to go up and over both ways and a twisty mountain road were your constantly slowing down and speeding up to deal with the curves. Interstate drives have all been in the mountains average MPG stays upper 20s to near 30 with getting 30 a few trips.

Yesterday we had the TSB done for the famous noise between 30-40 MPH. It is really too early to make the call but it looks like we might have gotten a bump in MPG. We reset the MPG and filled up the tank last night. We went out goofing off for 40-50 miles some of it 2 lane at 55 but a lot of it was on twisty little roads and a few miles on a gravel road with some steep climbs. We pulled back in at home sitting at 24 MPG. At one point in our drive we were showing an average low of 17 MPG while running up a mildly steep road for like 8-10 miles just after coming off the gravel road. I was really thinking on this trip we would have been around 20 MPG max because I thought is would be harder to recover from that 17 MPG in the middle of the drive. Time will tell if the TSB did in fact bring up the MPG a bit or if this was just a lucky fluke.

The difference in the ride height only has a very very small effect on MPG as does the AT tires on the Trailhawk. The biggest thing hurting the Trailhawk is weight. I did not think they weighed that much more than other trims till another poster pointed it out. The 306 pounds is going to cost a bit more on acceleration and going up grades. Of course on level ground cruising the extra weight cost nothing. But even then I'm not seeing much different than any other other Compass trim would see under the same type driving. If we were on flat land cruising 55-65 MPH on an interstate 30+ I think would be realistic.

I have played around a lot with air dams/spoilers and right height with MPG in mind years ago and looked at the data from experts. I had figured out long before Mythbusters that a bed cover on a pick up gave better MPG than a full camershell or removing the tailgate. I had some interesting results in cracking the tailgate open letting it lean back a few degrees. I put spoilers on trucks-cars lowered them added airdams and sometimes gained performance and economy sometimes lost it. But at 55-60 MPH gains were small if gains were found. It took higher speeds before decent gains could be seen. I gained 5 MPG on a small 2wd truck once at 70 with 4" drop an airdam,bed cover and spoiler/wing on the tailgate. I think I figured it would take like 2-3 years minimum to make it pay for the the cost spent but it was a sharp little truck.

Anyhow getting back to airdams there are gains to be had but the issue is to see many of these gains you are looking at doing things incompatible to having a 4x4 that does well in all around off road situations. You need to get the ride height down so that your not adding as much airdam to cut the air under the vehicle. The airdam has to almost scrap the pavement to be very effective. If you have a higher vehicle height you end up with more airdam and this increases frontal area that has to plow air out of the way the cost is less MPG than if you left the airdam off.

How slick a vehicle is underneath plays a role as well. Our Jeeps don't have much for air to grab under them in fact most is just parts of the control arms and tires but there are some little bits here and there sticking down. One could argue that the skid plates under the Trailhawk may help clean up the air under the Jeep and be more aroedynanilly effective than a airdam with a big gap left under it to the road.

Vehicles that have solid axles and crossmembers hanging down and such under the body will see greater gaines with a lower ride height and a small airdam leaving less than 2-3 inch gap to the ground. But again they are not going to be very capable off road.
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post #21 of 23 Old 07-31-2018, 10:50 PM
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... Yes, I've owned four trucks and two SUVs and grew up smashing them around the trails and forests of northern Minnesota. Real trails, by way, not some sanctioned dedicated play-pen with stickers and trail guides.. raw rocky muddy no-man's-land with overgrown abandoned logging trails privately owned and maintained by no one.
This had got to be the best part of this whole hilarious argument. The fact that the poster thinks ANY trail in MN is a challenging trail for a true 4WD. I live in MN now, but lived in Utah most of my life. There is no comparison. Go to Moab and hit hell's revenge or fins and things or lions back and then tell me about the "real trails" in MN. It's the same thing when people tell me about awesome the ski resorts are here in MN. They just don't know any better..
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post #22 of 23 Old 08-01-2018, 02:34 AM
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Sheesh, have some more koolaid Chris. And more than anything, try not to make unfounded assumptions about people. I find it tiresome to itemize and rattle off my credentials anytime someone wants to challenge them (maybe some day I'll make a bio and link it in a signature) but they are all besides the point anyways, either the information I'm giving out is accurate, or its not, and the other forum readers are free to weigh the evidence and put it with some google searching to draw their own conclusions. As soon as we devolve to the point of outright attacking each-other rather than the argument points we no longer have a productive discussion going.

Neither I nor the other readers have any use for us going back and forth about "well I owned this and that" and "I grew up in such and such driving blah blah blah". Yes, I've owned four trucks and two SUVs and grew up smashing them around the trails and forests of northern Minnesota. Real trails, by way, not some sanctioned dedicated play-pen with stickers and trail guides.. raw rocky muddy no-man's-land with overgrown abandoned logging trails privately owned and maintained by no one.

Nobody here cares.

My old man was an ASE certified master mechanic with whom I've spent thousands of hours in the garage turning every nut and bolt there is to turn, rebuilding engines and pulling transfer cases, swapping bent axles and driveshafts, fixing frame damage...

Still, none of this is hardly relevant. People can know things without necessarily having direct experience and/or academic background. (But sometimes it does help)
Here is the issue your comments do not reflect experience. For instance your down playing the role of skid plates on a crossover running less than 10" of ground clearance. Made worse by the fact the axles are tucked up into the body. So the parts that are going to be mostly in danger of contact with obstacles are not beefy solid axles but cast aluminum,thin tin and plastic. But skid plates are also a big part of going or getting stuck not only in rocks but mud or sand as well. They allow a vehicle to skid over things without parts catching on whatever your driving over.

Then the whole gearing thing anyone that does real off roading particularly up steep terrain or places tires are wedged by rocks and things know that a 20:1 crawl beats a 17:1. I know that number seems small but to put in perspective let's look at it from terms of gearing. If we were to go with your line of thought a Compass with 3.08 gears would perform almost identical to your 3.73 gears on slopes,rocks and would have nearly the same low speed control. Anyone in the off road community that truly gets out and wheels knows this is not true. Yes other 4x4 vehicles with low range boxes can push from around 35:1 to 100:1 crawl ratio and numbers like this seem huge and they are impressive. However most 4x4 that are not dedicated offroaders live,work and wheel in high range some pushing less crawl than you have. Our Ranger runs a 3.29 on 31s we run it most often in high range. However it is a 4.0 v6 so that helps make up for gearing some. The very fact we don't have a low range means if your wheeling in areas where having the best gearing is important you best get the best gearing you can.

I don't really get overly impressed by ASE mechanics for normal repair. If they are specialized in something more complicated that is where they might have some advantage. I have worked under a few and was doing the work then they would "Inspect" to see if it was done right.

I also have shown a few up. We had a dodge truck with a rattle master tech kept saying the engine was gone till I reached under the truck with a hammer and smacked the cat and the rattle stopped. My father in law live with us for the last few years he has 30+ years of ASE certification under his belt and he will tell you it is no big deal. He is no longer able to really get out there and work on his cars. You know who he trust to work on his vehicles well not the ASE just down the road I'm the one working on his trucks!!!!


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Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
Now I'm not out to be attacking our own vehicles we all like so much but they are what they are, and they are primarily a re-worked-re-badged fiat car whose primary goal was high sales volume. Of the three or four companies that collaborated on this the Jeep division put forth the most minimal effort they were required to do. The engine comes from Chrysler, the drivetrain was outsourced, the interior and infotainment was primarily done by Chrysler. Jeep merely spec'd out the bare minimum required to willingly have their name put on it and thats what the bigger companies involved put forth but without overspending. It is what it is, and the trims are just that (trims).

They are marketing the vehicle to a wide audience and have adapted it slightly here and there to suit various personas and invoke certain lifestyles. Thats great. Everyone can get a Compass thats tuned for them. But they are all almost identical at heart.
First on this I want to address the fact that these are based on the Fiat 500. Yes the platform is a Fiat 500 but that platform is a great platform for crossover duty so I don't hold that against them. Look at the Subaru Impreza it is a basic car. But it has proven it can hold up to being transformed into the WRX STI, XV and crosstrek. With an automatic and X-mode the Crosstrek is very hard to beat and is as capable off road as the non-Trailhawk trims of the Compass. There are others that have done a pretty decent job of building a crossover as well.

In the case of the Renegade and Compass it was not minimal effort. They took the Fiat 500 floor pan and tweaked it so it could endure crossover duty and allow for a lifted suspension. Then they added the Renegade or Compass shell that was designed to help make the floor pan more rigid and durable than the 500 shell.

The 2.4 engine was picked because it seems to be a good engine and would make enough people happy that knew what they were not buying a race car. But a very capable crossover with decent MPG. Plus they knew it fit just fine already

The transmission was spec'd out to ZF because it made sense to do so. These guys build great transmissions and they made sense to reach out to then for an all new wide gear range transmission that would not be a troublesome CVT.

It looks like from the link you posted to me a while ago that Fiat had already been using that outsourced 4x4/AWD for some time and realized for this crossover it was up to the task and with again some tweaking the results are very good.

Then we have suspension that was tweaked and even parts totally redesigned with again very good results.

Compare this to the Toyota Rav4 they basicly tossed a tiny lift and bigger tires on a Camry wagon with a so so 4wd system. Don't even get me started with Honda CRV! LOL So don't be so quick in comparing our Jeeps to the 500 just because they used that already very good platform. A lot more went into them that makes them do what they can do.

I also like how fiat actually embraced Jeep and think they have done a great job making sure all of the Jeep lineup retains off road capability. So much better than the direction Daimler-Benz was taking Jeep.



Quote:
Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
You are convinced there is more added capability on the trailhawk trim than the evidence supports, owing to placing too much value on trivial things like a microscopic "lift", some skid plates you should never rely on, slightly higher bumpers and a negligible bit of different code for the same transmission. Oh, and we can't forget the final drive gearing... that one is still my favorite of all because not only can the average person easily see that the difference between 17:1 and 20:1 doesn't mean sh!t when the Rubicon is sporting 84:1, but I like how you tend to just plug your ears with your fingers and go "la la la la la" and pretend that me doing things like successfully pulling a 3500 pound trailer 1000 miles including through a mountain range doesn't demonstrate the un-sung capability that ALL the Compass 4x4 models have.

There is some narrow range where the capability of the TH exceeds the other 4x4 Compasses, no doubt, but its a gap so demonstrably small and meaningless for the life of me I don't know why we are still going back and forth on it. I only try to point that out to help others who are doing pre-purchase research (its still fine to buy a TH if thats the aura you want your vehicle to put off), and to try to help some of you keep your perceptions of reality in-check because you embarrass us all when you run around bragging about your 19.9 millimeter lift in a world where only differences measured in inches (plural) count.
I still say your inexperience in off roading is showing and this is why you don't see or understand why the Trailhawk is much more caplibe than the other trims. Your making the assumptions because you have not found or maybe recognized the limits of the Limited you to believe that the Trailhawk is not much more capable.

Maybe where your wheeling is not quite as bad as you think it is and has not pushed your limited to where you are finding it's limets

You might have also just been very lucky up to this point in your wheeling adventures. I actually see this all the time. We see small stock cars (Honda Civic mainly) up in roads where we have bounced off our skid plates. We hear them beating the bottom of their cars to death but still make it. Then often we are driving around these cars (if there is a way around them) that are sitting there with a tire jammed into the wheel well or with a puddle of oil under them. Then sometimes they are lucky and they are just stuck in the middle of the road high centered or dropped a wheel in a rut and bottomed out.

Then sometimes you have been lucky and your luck runs out. Like years ago I had been wheeling my Sidekick in an old phosphorus mine and driven around the edge of a huge mud hole many many times on this one trail. Then apparently some big trucks on like 40" tires had been in the area tearing everything up for fun. So I go to drive around this as always and next thing I know the whole passenger side of my hood is under water. I took for granted that nothing had changed there in years. I was still lucky I had not hydrolocked my engine but I did have to call the wife and she had to drive 30 miles to bring me stuff I needed to recover my Sidekick.

What I am telling you though is that we have found some of the limits of our Trailhawk. We have scraped up those skid plates which means had they not been there we could have damaged things or been stuck. This means for the wheeling we are doing we need those skids and maybe another 1" of ground clearance. If you have any less Ground clearance and lack skids it it likely your going to be in trouble but you might get lucy.

We have pushed the gearing as far as I deem it safe too. If you have less gearing you might get lucky hitting things faster than we do to get over them.

We have brushed our front lower fascia on some some of the same places we pushed the gearing. Here luck will not help you. Sure you might make it but your going to have front end damage to more than just that airdam. Same holds for the rear so far we have cleared in the rear but by the hair of your chinny chin chin. Breakover well fuel tank skid lucky because we were off camber. I have been looking at rock sliders like RRO make. If we hit that place again or another like it I want to have them as we could have been down on the body easy.

But if your Jeep is fine wheeling where and how your wheeling and you don't find the bottom with it or find a place your revving the engine hard to get up you likely have enough Jeep for you! As noted even in non-Trailhawk trims they are amazingly capable for a crossover. There is a reason when Subaru is playing around showing off their capabilities they don't invite the Compass or Renegade as they would make it difficult to make the Subaru shine even in just the AWD traction stuff next to these Jeeps.

Quote:
Originally Posted by arudlang View Post
We can agree to disagree, I don't give a hoot. But if I lived closer I'd really enjoy the chance to chase you down some trail you think is latitude/limited-proof because I'd enjoy every mile watching you fog up your mirrors steaming in rage when you find you can't shake the regular 4x4
Wish you did live closer but I would warn to make sure your triple A is paid up. Since we are finding some of the limits of the Trailhawk other trims are going to get into trouble. We knew when first looking at the latitude that if we had gotten it with the six speed we were going to have to use our other vehicles to go many of the places we go. So Trailhawk was a no brainer.

Heck last night I ended up backing down a road after seeing how rough it was just a few 1000 ft in. This is a place we will go or try to but not without a back up vehicle most likely my Tracker to scout ahead because even the Compass might not be able to find a place to turn around should it get too rough. The road is pinned to a mountainside with a big drop down to a creek on the other side no to almost no shoulder. Locals report this road as being difficult in a Jeep Jeep as they say with very few places for vehicles to get pass each other We will see!
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post #23 of 23 Old 08-01-2018, 07:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Jacobs
If we were to go with your line of thought a Compass with 3.08 gears would perform almost identical to your 3.73 gears on slopes,rocks and would have nearly the same low speed control.
No no, thats not what I'm saying and you know it. I make no claim that gearing is altogether irrelevant, just that the ratios Jeep is currently offering on the Compass are all really close together and again so far the 3.73 has not been a detriment for me. Still seems to pull heavy things up steep hills with just enough power to do it. If I had the 4.334 I'd go up the hills with my boats and trailers even easier and accelerate faster but since I'm 99% of the time unloaded on a 4-lane highway I'm good with what I've got. I can hold 32 MPG at 75 MPH on flat ground on a windless day and for traveling as much as I do (Now at sixteen thousand miles in less than a year) its pretty much perfect.

Without a crapload of A-B-A testing its all just hearsay as to how much the airdam helps me at those highway speeds, but we know it does help some amount, and I know it clears curbs and bends out of the way (so far) when it needs to.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Jacobs
I don't really get overly impressed by ASE mechanics for normal repair. If they are specialized in something more complicated that is where they might have some advantage.
His specialization was performance/race engines or whatever they called it, but mainly in terms of chevy 350s and big blocks that are less common nowadays. He is definitely less comfortable working on modern stuff, the point was just that he knew a lot and I learned what I could from him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Jacobs
You might have also just been very lucky up to this point in your wheeling adventures.
Entirely possible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Jacobs
What I am telling you though is that we have found some of the limits of our Trailhawk. We have scraped up those skid plates which means had they not been there we could have damaged things or been stuck. This means for the wheeling we are doing we need those skids and maybe another 1" of ground clearance.
Right but you are actually going out of your way to get to to places to push some limits. What I'm getting at, and I think we agree, is that for the typical person who has paved roads all the way from their home to their place of work there is essentially no measurable difference between a 4x4 Latitude and a TH in terms of being able to get to work right after a blizzard. The snow plow comes and pushes 20 inches of wet snow into a berm across our driveway over and over again all winter long and I still drive out of it with no damage to the lower lip. This is what I mean in terms of the OP's question, the "normal stuff" you run up against. Our Honda Civic doesn't push out of those berms but the Compass does, even without the shaved bumper or skid plates to slide on.

Similarly, day to day you may ocaisionally find yourself on the wrong side of something like this:



And you don't need or benefit from having a TH for that stuff. I know thats not a great example but that is literally the most recent thing we've run up against. Little cars might be in a tricky situation there, but any ole Compass low lip or no lip is going to go right over that. We know this, but its the occasional person who would go over that pitiful excuse for an "obstacle" and turn around and say "Oh wow good thing I gots the trailhawk! We'd be stuck!" that makes me shake my head.

In other words, I don't think a person can easily point out any common urban obstacle or task for which a TH is needed and any other trim can't do it. Skid plates don't come into play at all unless you purposefully leave the pavement looking for trouble, and although the bumpers clear more stuff when articulating uneven terrain, the online spec's I'm able to find show the ground clearance of the Trailhawk at 8.5 inches and the Limited at 8.2 inches. In other words, on flat ground we clear almost exactly the same amount of stuff, probably because of lost clearance caused by the skid plates.

Just one more cheeky thing, because it sprang to mind and I couldn't help myself:



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