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post #1 of 48 Old 01-27-2007, 07:19 PM Thread Starter
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My Official Compass Review

Well, I picked up the ride yesterday and spent a good bit of time behind the wheel - I drove a couple hundred kms..

Compass, limited, cvt, 4x4 is the vehicle in question..

As mentioned in other threads, options included uconnect, full sized spare, conveneince and security groups, 6 disc / boston acoustics speakers. We opted out of the so often seen on the lot chrome wheels and the sunroof, which dropped the price of the car by 1500 bucks.

Driving - seeing other reports of sloppy steering really made me scratch my head. The compass in my view steers pretty crisply, and has less body roll than I would imagine for a CUV.

The brakes so far are fantastic, like they belong on a bigger car.

The CVT is easy to get used to - we have the autostick, I can't see it being used much. Power delivery was fine.

It isnt a high horsepower musclecar and in my pleibian driving, it was more than adequate. Merging at highway speed was good, stop and go traffic was without issue.

Certainly one should not expect a visceral driving experience a la a sports car. You're not in a porsche. You're in a crossover which has a different job and a much lower pricetag than a porsche.

The ride does communicate some bumps in the road, but this is to be expected given that the vehicle has 18 inch rims, and low profile tires. I would not want it any other way, but this fact may have contributed to some reviewers whining about the "rough" ride. The wheel tire / suspension package setup is exactly what I would want somewhat sporty and responsive.

Front visibility is good, side is good, but as many have stated there is a bit of a blind spot on the rear 3/4. Nothing insurmountable of course. Rearviews seems a little cramped through the mirror, but it is somethin I will get used to. All a matter of perspective, I am normally in an f250.

Seating posisiton on fthe road is good. Not rolling on the ground like a comparably priced compact car, but not way high like a larger truck / suv.

Inside - Leather front seats are nice, fairly supportive. I have sciatic nerve issues in my back and I effortlessy rolled down the highway which surprised me. I would have liked power seats, but it isn't a showstopper. the ability to finetune the seating position height was very nice. I would have preferred leather throughout, but at this pricepoint it is fine.

There is no getting around the fact that the dash is plastic. Thankfully it is in any other car in the segment as well. Panel fitment was good, seams were even. Lots of countours which is nicer than an expansive flat platic panel. If they could soften up the feel of the plastic a little bit they'd have a winner. That being said again, not worse than any other vehicle in the segment / pricepoint.

Instrumentation is pretty intuitive and clear. Heating / Vent controls as well are simple, logical and work well.

I insisted on the boston acoustics setup and let me tell you I'm glad I did. The sound is great. I've never been one to spend money on aftermarket systems but I still like to Rock and Roll whilst driving. Bass response is great, the sound is clear, and for a stock system it pounds nicely.

I opted for the 6 disc changer, and I at this point would not recommend it. I would not do it again. Why? Unless I'm missing something, there is not a n auxilliary input for an MP3 player like there is with the stock one. This boggles my mind and I was fairly disappointed in it. I'll look to an adapter of some sort now but that isn't the way I wanted to go. I did a triple take and could not believe I couldn't find it. The controls are good on the 6 disc changer, easy to use, works well without question, but I was put off by spending more money on the upgrade only to lose something that I really wanted. Shame on me for not researching.

Another beef is that indeed the older gen ipods don't fit too well in the flip out holder. DCX, it should not have taken much effort to pull this off properly.

Headroom is very good, step in to the vehicle is low which is also good. It retains 8+ inches of ground clearance - so you get the best of all worlds in a sense.

Utility - Space - looks great, fold flat seats and the back with its rugged floor. The thing seems to have more room inside than the last liberty I drove which is odd, but great for us.

Styling - I was really on the fence about it. It is unique, but seeing it up close and spending time with it - I've warmed up to it. There seems to be some people whining about its looks in other reviews, but I'm pretty satisfied in this department. It can't be mistaken for many of the bland crossovers out there. The paint had some noticeable orange peel, which is not unheard of, but it was more pronounced than I would have thought - maybe because of the color (inferno red).

In summary I'm quite pleased with the vehicle. Pricepoint versus the features you get quite frankly were better than anything else I looked at. Looking at the CRVs and RAV4s, I'd be in for thousands more. I had a turbo subaru forester for example, and although it was more satisfying performancewise and nicer inside than the compass, it cost 10k more. Caveat here, I'm canadian so I go by canadian pricing. The matrix didnt seem to be available with AWD this year and was more car than CUV.

So there is the punchline. A well optioned capable crossover that does its job very well for a bloody fair price. There are some sacrifices with the price of admission for sure..

However the fact that we have a unique, very safe, very well appointed vehicle with AWD and are not facing a large car payment is a nice place to be. I personally am a Mopar man dyed in the wool, but I was very skiddish on this vehicle to start. I can honestly report that I'm now more than satisfied with it. :P
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post #2 of 48 Old 01-31-2007, 03:15 AM
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Great review ACX, very worth reading. I agree with you on pretty much everything.

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Steel Blue, 26E, CVT, Boston Acoustics, Sec. grp.
Heated seats, Driver's convenience grp.
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post #3 of 48 Old 02-03-2007, 01:52 AM
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No aux input for my ipod on audio upgrade? Infuriating!

Hearing that the Boston Acoustics audio upgrade does not include the ipod jack is yet another 'discovery' that has made this buying experience the worst I have ever had. Daimler Chrysler/Jeep have completely **** the bed on many of the production aspects of this vehicle. Don't get me wrong, I really like the Compass for many reasons. However, I went into my local dealership a very knowledgeable buyer; I'm also a very loyal Jeep owner. I've loved every day of my last 11 years driving my custom 87 YJ--soft top in chilly Manitoba winters that just a month ago dropped to a nasty -50 with wind chill. No problem... I'm a Jeep guy.... BUT, I'm ready for a grown-up Jeep. The YJ with the top off, windshield folded foreward and doors off is for the smokin' hot prarie summers.....The grown-up Jeep, The Compass Limited, with its hard roof, heated leather seats and glass windows that don't zip down is for all of the other times....
I simply cannot believe that my dealer did not mention to me when I purchased the Boston Acoustics Audio with 6 disk changer that it did not come with the aux input for an mp3 player. They market the functionality and convenience of the flip out ipod holder and the aux input; it is illogical and almost sneaky not to have it an all audio package options.
This is brutal news to me....still waiting..its been 14 almost 15 weeks and now i hear this news.
By the way, thanks ACX for your very thorough review.
I swear I'm going to be tempted to drive cross country the day I take possesion of my Compass. I'm being tortured with this crazy waiting!
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post #4 of 48 Old 02-03-2007, 02:59 AM
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I have the BA package with the standard single CD and it does have the Aux jack. It works great with my Nano.

Maybe ask then to swap the 6 CD changer for the regular unit. It would be worth a try.

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post #5 of 48 Old 02-04-2007, 02:15 AM Thread Starter
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it isn't the boston acoustics option that kills the aux jack it is the 6 disc changer, actually 2 options..

the ideal setup = boston acoustic musicgate option, with stock CD player.



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post #6 of 48 Old 02-04-2007, 01:49 PM
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BA

the upgrade to the BA speaker package does not include changing the factory single disc player. the single disc head unit has the aux jack

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post #7 of 48 Old 03-21-2007, 02:19 PM
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I thought that it would make sense to post the CR Review

Okay here is the Synopsis from the Consumer Reports Review in the February 2007 issue:

Model Reviewed: Jeep Compass Sport with CVT & 2.4L Engine
Category: Small SUV’s
Score: 51 out of 100 (Compass Score)
Highest Rated: Toyota RAV4 Limited (V6) – Score: 83 out of 100 (Effectively this means that the Compass scored 51 out of 83 or 61.4%) (This RAV4 V6 also costs about $9000 US more than this Compass Sport)
Highs: CVT Transmission, Unusual Interior Features
Lows: Agility, Fit & Finish, Engine & Road Noise, Visibility, Rear Access.

It was Not a CR Quick Pick either.

For comparison the Jeep Liberty Sport (V6) scored @ 42 by Consumer Reports and it costs $4000 US more than the Compass.

:idea:

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post #8 of 48 Old 03-21-2007, 04:21 PM Thread Starter
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For me, CR is essentially toilet paper. Not calling anyone out though.

Their most recent farce was eating crow when it came out that their child seat testing for cars was massively flawed.

It is clear that many people have a hate on for the compass, because they:

a)don't like the styling
b)take offense to a jeep branded vehicle that can't drive up a wall

One example of this haterade is edmunds mentioning that the patriot's interior is less of a trainwreck than the compasses, when at least from my eyes, they are virtually identical if not so.

now with respect to the 2 main issues, I'm not constrained by those paradigms.

If they want to grow the Jeep brand then they will look to untraditional vehicles, just like Toyota did when it moved into larger cars, minivans. Styling is subjective, but I can tell you that on ours, we've received nothing but compliments.

The compass is the highest selling jeep vehicle in canada thus far in 2006. that says something. Pricing schedule may well be off in the US, but that being the case, the compass should sell 50-60k units, as will the patriot when it gets up to steam. Grabbing market share where Domestics are losing it at record pace.

In the view of a bargain 4x4 crossover, in my reality the compass does everything it should and quite well.

I said it before, that the reality of pricing in canada as a frame of reference, a compass limited 4x4 loaded is a SCREAMING bargain for our price of 27,200, when I look at rav4s and CRVs for between 35 and 40 thousand dollars.

I don't care what some reviewer who has a chip on his shoulder has to say. I drive vehicles, and pick the one I can live with, which fits my needs and budget the best.

The compass blew the doors off anything else for us.
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post #9 of 48 Old 03-21-2007, 05:20 PM
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Consumer Reports # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACX
For me, CR is essentially toilet paper. Not calling anyone out though.

Their most recent farce was eating crow when it came out that their child seat testing for cars was massively flawed.

It is clear that many people have a hate on for the compass, because they:

a)don't like the styling
b)take offense to a jeep branded vehicle that can't drive up a wall

One example of this haterade is edmunds mentioning that the patriot's interior is less of a trainwreck than the compasses, when at least from my eyes, they are virtually identical if not so.

now with respect to the 2 main issues, I'm not constrained by those paradigms.

If they want to grow the Jeep brand then they will look to untraditional vehicles, just like Toyota did when it moved into larger cars, minivans. Styling is subjective, but I can tell you that on ours, we've received nothing but compliments.

The compass is the highest selling jeep vehicle in canada thus far in 2006. that says something. Pricing schedule may well be off in the US, but that being the case, the compass should sell 50-60k units, as will the patriot when it gets up to steam. Grabbing market share where Domestics are losing it at record pace.

In the view of a bargain 4x4 crossover, in my reality the compass does everything it should and quite well.

I said it before, that the reality of pricing in canada as a frame of reference, a compass limited 4x4 loaded is a SCREAMING bargain for our price of 27,200, when I look at rav4s and CRVs for between 35 and 40 thousand dollars.

I don't care what some reviewer who has a chip on his shoulder has to say. I drive vehicles, and pick the one I can live with, which fits my needs and budget the best.

The compass blew the doors off anything else for us.
Hey don't get me wrong I like the Compass and we'll probably be buying either a Caliber or a Compass later this year. (Once the 2008's are out as I never buy a car in it's first model year)

Calling CR toilet paper is a bit much. Yes they made 1 error on the Car Seats but they admitted it and put a retraction in their next issue. Plus they also mailed a special notice to all their subscribers saying that they made an error in their car seat testing.

CR is the most unbiased magazine out there as they Actually Buy all of the products that they test with their own money and they don't accept any advertising or endorsments. They also have Teams of people review the products (not just a single reviewer) to ensure a balanced reveiw.

As to Edmunds I agree that SOME of them seem to have it out for the Caliber, Compass & Patriot. Especially that Karl on Cars guy.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Caliber

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Compass

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Patriot

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/cate ... assLimited

Edmunds did however buy a Compass for their Long Term test fleet & there is some good info in the above link.

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post #10 of 48 Old 03-21-2007, 08:32 PM
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aux jack .. OR mp3 compatability ..

Great review ACX ...

We have the full 9-speaker arrangement (including the sub and the 2 tailgate speakers) .. but only the single in-dash cd player ...

I love the aux jack, and the AC outlet (I can finally use my old mini-disc player with a broken battery cover) .. and don't really feel lacking without the changer, but I was pretty disappointed that the regular cd player can't handle mps discs ..

In my Exploder I had an $80 no name disc player I bought from CrappyTire and it played mp3 discs ... I can hook up an external disc man to handle it, but its a bit cheese-o ..

anyway ... it might be first-model-year hassles ... be interesting to see how many of these little flaws get ironed out ..

2007 Compass North (Sport 26E), 4x4, Inferno Red, Boston Acoustics Sound System, Power Sunroof
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post #11 of 48 Old 03-21-2007, 09:55 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Consumer Reports # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005
Hey don't get me wrong I like the Compass and we'll probably be buying either a Caliber or a Compass later this year. (Once the 2008's are out as I never buy a car in it's first model year)

Calling CR toilet paper is a bit much. Yes they made 1 error on the Car Seats but they admitted it and put a retraction in their next issue. Plus they also mailed a special notice to all their subscribers saying that they made an error in their car seat testing.

CR is the most unbiased magazine out there as they Actually Buy all of the products that they test with their own money and they don't accept any advertising or endorsments. They also have Teams of people review the products (not just a single reviewer) to ensure a balanced reveiw.

As to Edmunds I agree that SOME of them seem to have it out for the Caliber, Compass & Patriot. Especially that Karl on Cars guy.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Caliber

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Compass

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Patriot

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/cate ... assLimited

Edmunds did however buy a Compass for their Long Term test fleet & there is some good info in the above link.
No in my view they basically are good for toilet paper.

Their analysis leaves much to be desired, especially since so many lemmings use it as a bible. I'm not caling you out as I said personally at all, but that is how I see it.

Here are some thoughts on the shortcomings of their "stats" so not my words although I agree with them 110%.

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortco ... sion_code=

And again for reviews, I take everything with a grain of salt. The camry for example won many accolades including motortrend car of the year, then summarily lost a head to head comparo against the saturn aura, was called cheap by car and driver, and lost 2 head to head challenges against the ford fusion with the car buying public. So you know what they say about opinions.
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post #12 of 48 Old 03-22-2007, 01:49 AM
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On the topic of first year "bugs" to work out. We've got 11,000km on ours and these are the problems to date:
- Hatch not closing easily at -30 Celcius (works fine when warm out)
- Rear brakes noisy in reverse (dealer fixed but they're a bit noisy again)
- Odd paint chip (may not be factory defect, I don't know)

It's been a solid vehicle for being the first year out. We've had the Compass now for just over 7 months.
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post #13 of 48 Old 03-22-2007, 12:34 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005
Hey don't get me wrong I like the Compass and we'll probably be buying either a Caliber or a Compass later this year. (Once the 2008's are out as I never buy a car in it's first model year)

Calling CR toilet paper is a bit much. Yes they made 1 error on the Car Seats but they admitted it and put a retraction in their next issue. Plus they also mailed a special notice to all their subscribers saying that they made an error in their car seat testing.

CR is the most unbiased magazine out there as they Actually Buy all of the products that they test with their own money and they don't accept any advertising or endorsments. They also have Teams of people review the products (not just a single reviewer) to ensure a balanced reveiw.

As to Edmunds I agree that SOME of them seem to have it out for the Caliber, Compass & Patriot. Especially that Karl on Cars guy.

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Caliber

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Compass

http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Vi ... el=Patriot

http://blogs.edmunds.com/roadtests/cate ... assLimited

Edmunds did however buy a Compass for their Long Term test fleet & there is some good info in the above link.
No in my view they basically are good for toilet paper.

Their analysis leaves much to be desired, especially since so many lemmings use it as a bible. I'm not caling you out as I said personally at all, but that is how I see it.

Here are some thoughts on the shortcomings of their "stats" so not my words although I agree with them 110%.

http://www.allpar.com/cr.html

http://www.truedelta.com/pieces/shortco ... sion_code=

And again for reviews, I take everything with a grain of salt. The camry for example won many accolades including motortrend car of the year, then summarily lost a head to head comparo against the saturn aura, was called cheap by car and driver, and lost 2 head to head challenges against the ford fusion with the car buying public. So you know what they say about opinions.
Keep in mind that Most of those "Car of the Year" awards are only for cars in their first year or the first year of a major redesign. So if the Camry wins it this year it can't win it next year as it's no longer elgible. Those awards are a little misleading in that regard.

BTW: A lot of the info in the links that you provided is either inacurate or out of date - especially in regards to the number of Survey Responses CR receives.

Again CR is # 1.

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post #14 of 48 Old 03-22-2007, 03:19 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Consumer Reports # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005
Keep in mind that Most of those "Car of the Year" awards are only for cars in their first year or the first year of a major redesign. So if the Camry wins it this year it can't win it next year as it's no longer elgible. Those awards are a little misleading in that regard.

BTW: A lot of the info in the links that you provided is either inacurate or out of date - especially in regards to the number of Survey Responses CR receives.

Again CR is # 1.
I discount them 100%, and always will. We won't change eachother's minds. I'm not sure how the links inaccurate or out of date - all of it especially. There are problems ingrained with their studies at fundamental levels, in my and many other's opinions.

We can agree to disagree and that is fine . To the matter at hand, I don't need to take some stuffed shirt in a magazine's opinion as law, or live my life with a fear factor as delivered by some magazine about a brand new vehicle in 2007 breaking down and leaving me high and dry.

I'll drive them all and pick the one that fits best.
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post #15 of 48 Old 03-23-2007, 02:09 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005
Keep in mind that Most of those "Car of the Year" awards are only for cars in their first year or the first year of a major redesign. So if the Camry wins it this year it can't win it next year as it's no longer elgible. Those awards are a little misleading in that regard.

BTW: A lot of the info in the links that you provided is either inacurate or out of date - especially in regards to the number of Survey Responses CR receives.

Again CR is # 1.
I discount them 100%, and always will. We won't change eachother's minds. I'm not sure how the links inaccurate or out of date - all of it especially. There are problems ingrained with their studies at fundamental levels, in my and many other's opinions.

We can agree to disagree and that is fine . To the matter at hand, I don't need to take some stuffed shirt in a magazine's opinion as law, or live my life with a fear factor as delivered by some magazine about a brand new vehicle in 2007 breaking down and leaving me high and dry.

I'll drive them all and pick the one that fits best.
Well they said that "Of over 4 million questionnaires sent this year, the magazine received responses regarding about 480,000 vehicles".

The actual number of Survey Responses that CR received for this years survey was Almost 1 Million - covering 1,302,575 vehicles.

That's a pretty big error right there! It pretty much challenges the validity of all of their information.

:!:

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post #16 of 48 Old 03-23-2007, 02:57 PM
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Well said, ACX!! I could not agree more, and could not have said it better myself. After all, whose opinion is it that really counts anyway, but ours? As far as (un) popular opinion goes regarding the Compass, I am the one who bought it, I am the one who drives it. It is not theirs to like, it is mine, and I am more than satisfied. I was looking for a go-anywhere-I-go and do-anything-I-do vehicle, and I got it with this one, something capable and versatile, yet safe, stylish and fun. Buying a car on the basis of some review (anyone notice that all the reviews basically said the exact same thing, sometimes even verbatim?) would be like buying it because you like the commercial. Either way, not the best educated guess one could make, especially considering the money spent. One thing we have going for us, other than that we have a great car, is that we are more original than the opinions that seem to abound.





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Amen.

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post #18 of 48 Old 03-25-2007, 05:54 PM Thread Starter
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Re: Consumer Reports # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005
Well they said that "Of over 4 million questionnaires sent this year, the magazine received responses regarding about 480,000 vehicles".

The actual number of Survey Responses that CR received for this years survey was Almost 1 Million - covering 1,302,575 vehicles.

That's a pretty big error right there! It pretty much challenges the validity of all of their information.

:!:
Oh I see, all the information is suspect..

Do they actually, Specifically define what a "serious problem" is these days?

For example, most agree that import drivers are more forgiving of their own vehicles, so say, an acura TL owner who had his transmission replaced (like I did in mine) may not consider thata serious problem, but someone who had a broken cup holder in a VW may consider it a serious problem.

Do they send the survey out more frequency, or are people asked to report on the last year, which opens up the door for error?

Are their ratings not driven off the average vehicle, making absolute comparisons difficult if not impossible?

Do they report standard deviations so we can see howmuch worse the second place car is to the first one, or could it be chance, or could the difference be minutia?

Discount it all you want and I'll do the same from the other side.. CR as far reminds me of a cult. You can't convince believers that they could do anything wrong, and you can't convince the rest that they are on the level. They play very well to their own target audience.

by your logic as well, the flaws in their car seat reporting would make the rest of their findings suspect.

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Re: Consumer Reports # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by ACX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005
Well they said that "Of over 4 million questionnaires sent this year, the magazine received responses regarding about 480,000 vehicles".

The actual number of Survey Responses that CR received for this years survey was Almost 1 Million - covering 1,302,575 vehicles.

That's a pretty big error right there! It pretty much challenges the validity of all of their information.

:!:
Oh I see, all the information is suspect..

Do they actually, Specifically define what a "serious problem" is these days?

For example, most agree that import drivers are more forgiving of their own vehicles, so say, an acura TL owner who had his transmission replaced (like I did in mine) may not consider thata serious problem, but someone who had a broken cup holder in a VW may consider it a serious problem.

Do they send the survey out more frequency, or are people asked to report on the last year, which opens up the door for error?

Are their ratings not driven off the average vehicle, making absolute comparisons difficult if not impossible?

Do they report standard deviations so we can see howmuch worse the second place car is to the first one, or could it be chance, or could the difference be minutia?

Discount it all you want and I'll do the same from the other side.. CR as far reminds me of a cult. You can't convince believers that they could do anything wrong, and you can't convince the rest that they are on the level. They play very well to their own target audience.

by your logic as well, the flaws in their car seat reporting would make the rest of their findings suspect.
"Oh I see, all the information is suspect.."

I never said that. But if they're off by almost a Million in the simplest information to collect then I'd say it does make their analysis very suspect.

"Do they actually, Specifically define what a "serious problem" is these days?"

No the ask if you've had ANY problems as per the industry standard when reporting quality issues.

"Do they send the survey out more frequency, or are people asked to report on the last year, which opens up the door for error?"

They send the Survey out to All of their subscribers Every year. As long as you own the car you are asked to comment on it. For example I have a 2002 model so I would have filled out a survey for 5 years now - on the same car. This allows CR to see how the quality holds up over time.

"Are their ratings not driven off the average vehicle, making absolute comparisons difficult if not impossible?"

No they have 2 seperate categories. They have a CR Team review the car and give it a score. They then use the surveys to determine reliability. For example the Compass scored a 51 but there is no Reliability information as it is too new.

"Do they report standard deviations so we can see howmuch worse the second place car is to the first one, or could it be chance, or could the difference be minutia?"

They provide scores for all the cars in the class. For instance the Compass was scored a 51 out of 100. But the best car in the category (Small SUV's) received a 83. So effectivley this means the Compass scored a 51 out of 83. (The RAV4 V6 was the car that scored 83 but CR points out that the RAV4 V6 costs $9000 US more than the Compass)

"Discount it all you want and I'll do the same from the other side.. CR as far reminds me of a cult. You can't convince believers that they could do anything wrong, and you can't convince the rest that they are on the level. They play very well to their own target audience."

You obviously lack any objectivity as first you called CR toilet paper and now you're calling it a cult. It's funny though how their Reliability rankings are almost a mirror image of J.D. Powers. But I guess J.D. Power must be a cult too?


"by your logic as well, the flaws in their car seat reporting would make the rest of their findings suspect."

No not at all as CR has admited their error publicly. They also printed a retraction in the next issue & on top of that they mailed out 2 seperate notices informing all their subscribers of the error. They removed the information from their website and placed a notice about the error there too. I'm not sure how much more you would like them to do?

In the links that you provided they are still showing invalid, innacurate or out of date information - and something tells me they won't be correcting it with the real information.

:!:

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post #20 of 48 Old 03-27-2007, 02:15 PM
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Re: Consumer Reports # 1

Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005

"Oh I see, all the information is suspect.."

I never said that. But if they're off by almost a Million in the simplest information to collect then I'd say it does make their analysis very suspect.

"Do they actually, Specifically define what a "serious problem" is these days?"

No the ask if you've had ANY problems as per the industry standard when reporting quality issues.

"Do they send the survey out more frequency, or are people asked to report on the last year, which opens up the door for error?"

They send the Survey out to All of their subscribers Every year. As long as you own the car you are asked to comment on it. For example I have a 2002 model so I would have filled out a survey for 5 years now - on the same car. This allows CR to see how the quality holds up over time.

"Are their ratings not driven off the average vehicle, making absolute comparisons difficult if not impossible?"

No they have 2 seperate categories. They have a CR Team review the car and give it a score. They then use the surveys to determine reliability. For example the Compass scored a 51 but there is no Reliability information as it is too new.

"Do they report standard deviations so we can see howmuch worse the second place car is to the first one, or could it be chance, or could the difference be minutia?"

They provide scores for all the cars in the class. For instance the Compass was scored a 51 out of 100. But the best car in the category (Small SUV's) received a 83. So effectivley this means the Compass scored a 51 out of 83. (The RAV4 V6 was the car that scored 83 but CR points out that the RAV4 V6 costs $9000 US more than the Compass)

"Discount it all you want and I'll do the same from the other side.. CR as far reminds me of a cult. You can't convince believers that they could do anything wrong, and you can't convince the rest that they are on the level. They play very well to their own target audience."

You obviously lack any objectivity as first you called CR toilet paper and now you're calling it a cult. It's funny though how their Reliability rankings are almost a mirror image of J.D. Powers. But I guess J.D. Power must be a cult too?


"by your logic as well, the flaws in their car seat reporting would make the rest of their findings suspect."

No not at all as CR has admited their error publicly. They also printed a retraction in the next issue & on top of that they mailed out 2 seperate notices informing all their subscribers of the error. They removed the information from their website and placed a notice about the error there too. I'm not sure how much more you would like them to do?

In the links that you provided they are still showing invalid, innacurate or out of date information - and something tells me they won't be correcting it with the real information.

:!:
I forgot to mention that one of the questions that CR asks on their surveys is "Would You Buy Your Car Again?"
They report on this in their Owner Satisfaction info & really is there a better question to ask?
:!:

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post #21 of 48 Old 03-31-2007, 12:39 PM
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No, Neely, there really is not a better question than that. In fact, out of all those surveys I just finished, not one asked me that, even though, overall, I would have to answer "yes." To me, it was a very well designed car. However, what I have found that really bugs me is the misaligned fit of some things, like the doors and trim. In some places they are not level or flush. Oh yeah, the only other thing I would really comment on, is that everyone that reviewed the car complained about the interior materials, too much plastic. I am more content with the plastic on the inside than I am with the plastic on the outside. For 24K, at least give me STEEL bumpers. There is nothing forgiving about the bumpers, especially if I hit another dog the size of a small deer like I did with my Cherokee. At least that was fixable without having to replace entire components. Any comments are welcome, but that is just my thought. Still LOVE the car, though.





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post #22 of 48 Old 04-02-2007, 10:22 PM Thread Starter
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some interesting results from a recent Cr publication.. you may find it if you visit the church of Consumer Reports (make sure and dress the kiddies up nice when jumping into the honda to roll down to the parish)... l.m.a.o.

Looking through Consumer Report's New Car Preview 2006, I noticed many anomalies that beg for an explanation. Unfortunately, none is offered. This month I’ll discuss these unexplained differences, and how TrueDelta would handle them differently.

Specifically, I noticed many large differences between different bodystyles of the same basic car. This surprised me. Logically, different styles of the same basic car should score about the same, as they share the great majority of their parts, including powertrains. This is especially the case if both are made in the same plant.

**For example, the Dodge Magnum is essentially a Chrysler 300 with a wagon body, and both are assembled in a Chrysler plant near Toronto. However, the Dodge Magnum with the much-touted Hemi V8 scored about 55 points better than the Chrysler 300 with the same engine (with 100 being average). This is a huge difference, since only 40 points separate “worse than average” from ”better than average.” At the same time, the V6 Magnum scored about 25 points WORSE than the V6 300.

Comparing engines rather than models, the V8 scored over 60 points worse than the V6 in the 300, but scored about 20 points better than the V6 in the Magnum.

Basically, we have an 80-point anomaly. This is huge, since only 90 points (80 in past years) separate the dreaded ”much worse than average” from the much-sought ”much better than average.”

**This is the largest and oddest anomaly, but there are others. The Ford Freestyle is essentially a Ford Five Hundred with a wagon body, but it scored significantly worse. The largest difference between the two is that every Freestyle has a continuously variable transmission (CVT), while many front-wheel-drive Five Hundreds have a conventional automatic manufactured by Toyota’s transmission supplier. This could be the source of the difference. However, while the Freestyle scored about 20 points lower than the Five Hundred in front-drive form, it scored 45 points lower in all-wheel-drive form. Since every all-wheel-drive Five Hundred has the CVT, if the CVT was the reason then the difference between front-drive models should be the larger of the two.

Large differences between different bodystyles of the same vehicle are actually very common:

**The Volvo S40 sedan scored about 70 points better than the V50 wagon. This is especially odd since the sedan went into production a few months earlier, and thus was much more exposed to first-year issues.

**The Volvo S60 sedan scored about 15 points higher than the V70 wagon. Unless we're talking AWD versions; then the S60 scored about 10 points lower than the V70 wagon.

**The Subaru Outback wagon turbo scored about 20 points worse than the Subaru Legacy sedan turbo, with suspension height and bodystyle the only significant differences between the two.

**The Malibu Maxx hatch scored nearly 30 points higher than the Malibu sedan.

**The Passat wagon scored about 50 points worse than the Passat sedan.

It's actually much less common for different bodystyles of the same car to score about the same. A few that do: the Audi A4, the Ford Focus (sedan and hatch; the wagon is worse), and the Mazda3.

While Consumer Reports makes a big deal out of the 25-point difference that separates a ”much better than average” car from one that is merely ”average,” differences this large or larger appear without explanation throughout their results..

:lol:
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post #23 of 48 Old 04-04-2007, 05:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ACX

some interesting results from a recent Cr publication.. you may find it if you visit the church of Consumer Reports (make sure and dress the kiddies up nice when jumping into the honda to roll down to the parish)... l.m.a.o.

Looking through Consumer Report's New Car Preview 2006, I noticed many anomalies that beg for an explanation. Unfortunately, none is offered. This month I’ll discuss these unexplained differences, and how TrueDelta would handle them differently.

Specifically, I noticed many large differences between different bodystyles of the same basic car. This surprised me. Logically, different styles of the same basic car should score about the same, as they share the great majority of their parts, including powertrains. This is especially the case if both are made in the same plant.

**For example, the Dodge Magnum is essentially a Chrysler 300 with a wagon body, and both are assembled in a Chrysler plant near Toronto. However, the Dodge Magnum with the much-touted Hemi V8 scored about 55 points better than the Chrysler 300 with the same engine (with 100 being average). This is a huge difference, since only 40 points separate “worse than average” from ”better than average.” At the same time, the V6 Magnum scored about 25 points WORSE than the V6 300.

Comparing engines rather than models, the V8 scored over 60 points worse than the V6 in the 300, but scored about 20 points better than the V6 in the Magnum.

Basically, we have an 80-point anomaly. This is huge, since only 90 points (80 in past years) separate the dreaded ”much worse than average” from the much-sought ”much better than average.”

**This is the largest and oddest anomaly, but there are others. The Ford Freestyle is essentially a Ford Five Hundred with a wagon body, but it scored significantly worse. The largest difference between the two is that every Freestyle has a continuously variable transmission (CVT), while many front-wheel-drive Five Hundreds have a conventional automatic manufactured by Toyota’s transmission supplier. This could be the source of the difference. However, while the Freestyle scored about 20 points lower than the Five Hundred in front-drive form, it scored 45 points lower in all-wheel-drive form. Since every all-wheel-drive Five Hundred has the CVT, if the CVT was the reason then the difference between front-drive models should be the larger of the two.

Large differences between different bodystyles of the same vehicle are actually very common:

**The Volvo S40 sedan scored about 70 points better than the V50 wagon. This is especially odd since the sedan went into production a few months earlier, and thus was much more exposed to first-year issues.

**The Volvo S60 sedan scored about 15 points higher than the V70 wagon. Unless we're talking AWD versions; then the S60 scored about 10 points lower than the V70 wagon.

**The Subaru Outback wagon turbo scored about 20 points worse than the Subaru Legacy sedan turbo, with suspension height and bodystyle the only significant differences between the two.

**The Malibu Maxx hatch scored nearly 30 points higher than the Malibu sedan.

**The Passat wagon scored about 50 points worse than the Passat sedan.

It's actually much less common for different bodystyles of the same car to score about the same. A few that do: the Audi A4, the Ford Focus (sedan and hatch; the wagon is worse), and the Mazda3.

While Consumer Reports makes a big deal out of the 25-point difference that separates a ”much better than average” car from one that is merely ”average,” differences this large or larger appear without explanation throughout their results..

:lol:
First off I drive a 2002 Chrysler Neon. (Before you say Dodge Neon they sold them as Chrysler Neons in Canada for a few years)
Secondly I've already explained that CR scores the cars out of 100 (The Compass got 51 out of 100... ) but obviously you're not reading my posts as you keep making us nonsense about Average, Better Than Average...
Thirdly the cars are scored by category and the Magnum & 300 are in different categories.
Fourthly I'm not wasting anymore time with you as my explanations are obviously to complex for you to grasp and you definitely don't possess even a modicum of common sense.

Keep ignoring the truth and choosing what truths to believe. I'm sure that it will work out well for you.

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post #24 of 48 Old 04-09-2007, 12:07 AM
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Consumer Reports is just another reference to use when you're exploring the purchase of a new vehicle. Reviews can give you ideas about what to look for when testing a vehicle out ... but ultimately the decision is yours to make!

The problem I have with CR is that they've bought into the mystique about Japanese cars, as if the Japanese car makers can do no wrong.

And CR also gave the Wrangler a score of 17 (out of 100).

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post #25 of 48 Old 04-09-2007, 02:01 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kwc
Consumer Reports is just another reference to use when you're exploring the purchase of a new vehicle. Reviews can give you ideas about what to look for when testing a vehicle out ... but ultimately the decision is yours to make!

The problem I have with CR is that they've bought into the mystique about Japanese cars, as if the Japanese car makers can do no wrong.

And CR also gave the Wrangler a score of 17 (out of 100).
I agree that CR is just one reference to use - but it is a very good one.

As to your comment on CR & Japanese car makers that's not true as Mitsubishi is Japanese and they don't do to well in CR reviews.

As to the Wrangler it's made for off road driving and CR says that it's great Off Road but horrible On Road - and I've read that very same thing in numerous reviews, not just CR.

We test drove a Compass on the weekend and for the most part I liked it. We're probably going to be buying a new car this fall and right now it's between the Compass & the Caliber.
:

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post #26 of 48 Old 04-09-2007, 09:36 PM
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Quote:
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.....We're probably going to be buying a new car this fall and right now it's between the Compass & the Caliber.
:
Between the two.... well you know what I picked. We were originally going to order up a Caliber but decided the Compass was a better buy. There's more cargo capacity, you sit a little higher, and it doesn't have the useless chill zone Not to mention you get 17" aluminum rims standard among other things. I like having a 4WD mode you can't get with the Caliber.
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post #27 of 48 Old 04-10-2007, 02:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmaster
Quote:
Originally Posted by Neely2005
.....We're probably going to be buying a new car this fall and right now it's between the Compass & the Caliber.
:
Between the two.... well you know what I picked. We were originally going to order up a Caliber but decided the Compass was a better buy. There's more cargo capacity, you sit a little higher, and it doesn't have the useless chill zone Not to mention you get 17" aluminum rims standard among other things. I like having a 4WD mode you can't get with the Caliber.
Yeah we're having a tough time deciding as there are things on both that we like. We'd either be getting a Caliber R/T AWD or a Compass Limited.

Yeah the Chill Zone is not to great but I like it better than the useless hole in the Compass dash & the glove box on the caliber is much bigger too.

I like the 4WD Lock on the Compass too as well as more cargo room, head room & ground clearance. The Compass actually accelerates a little faster than the Caliber too.

I like the Gages and the Outside Door Handles (R/T only) on the Caliber.

The Caliber is also a Little cheaper.

Decisions, decisions...

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post #28 of 48 Old 04-10-2007, 02:24 PM
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Neely2005, I agree on most parts. I like the opening in the dash, it's a good spot for Kleenex, pens, etc.

I also agree the Caliber guages are nicer and the R/T door handles with the chrome strip look nice.

I didn't notice any power/acceleration differences myself.

We've had to use the 4WD lock mode in the snow, I wonder how the Caliber would have done in that deep snow.....? We also put on Nokian all-weather tires for better year-round traction.
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post #29 of 48 Old 04-10-2007, 05:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Webmaster
Neely2005, I agree on most parts. I like the opening in the dash, it's a good spot for Kleenex, pens, etc.

I also agree the Caliber guages are nicer and the R/T door handles with the chrome strip look nice.

I didn't notice any power/acceleration differences myself.

We've had to use the 4WD lock mode in the snow, I wonder how the Caliber would have done in that deep snow.....? We also put on Nokian all-weather tires for better year-round traction.
The R/T door handles not only look better but they feel much more solid. I'm assuming that the AWD Caliber would do okay in the snow even with out the 4WD Lock Mode?

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post #30 of 48 Old 04-19-2007, 06:06 PM
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Another Compass Review:

http://autos.msn.com/advice/article.asp ... id=4024059

:!:

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