So I want to go with the Daystar 1.5 inch lift kit for my 2018 Trailhawk Compass. Anybody have one? Thoughts? Thanks in advance!
Well ya know, these are glorified cars mostly used as grocery getters and commuters by regular folks who live in areas with heavy winter snow, or they just like the style. These are not serious off-roaders and most people buying them realize that going in. Being a car platform, they don't lift well anyways. Just going to run the CV axles at a harsher angle and wear them out sooner, throw off the center of balance and the nice on-road driving dynamics this car has. Buuuut just like the backwards-baseball-cap subaru guys who find a way to crank up their cars and put ridiculous KO2s on them, there will always be somebody that wants to wreck the driveability of a perfectly good car and turn it into something lost in-between where its neither a good driving car on the road nor a good off road machine.bluestar said:Can't believe nobody has the kit!
Maybe I missed something, I've watched the entire teraflex installation video a couple of times but don't own the kit myself. I don't think there is any issue in the back because it moves the diff and the carrier bearing down with everything, but I'm pretty sure you still have the issue in the front because if you put spacers on top of the struts to lower the wheels relative to the body and the transaxle stays put on its original mounts... that necessitates that the front CVs are now running at more of an angle than before, no?84z28 said:Both the teraflex and the daystar are body lifts, all the suspension geometry stays the same
The teraflex 1.5" kit advertises up to a 225/65R17 tire. To get to 235 you need spacers more than you need a lift, as you have issues with the lateral clearance on the strut towers before you have issues rubbing the fender well.bluestar said:Also, if I did go with the Daystar 1.5 inch lift kit....How tall and wide of a tire could I get away with? Would like to be at least in the 235 area...
This weekend I (re)watched the install videos for both the teraflex and the daystar kit, and went over the parts lists. I was doing this because the Teraflex kit is pretty cheap on amazon right now, only $310, so I was looking it over pretty close (but ultimately did not buy).84z28 said:Negative my friend, spacers for the front struts and subframe are to push the body up. All the geometry of the suspension stays the same.With those lifts you gain no extra ground clearance as the "drivetrain" is still below the lifting point, all you gain is wheel clearance. A true "Suspension Lift" will actually give you more ground clearance as you modifying the entire suspension
This weekend I (re)watched the install videos for both the teraflex and the daystar kit, and went over the parts lists. I was doing this because the Teraflex kit is pretty cheap on amazon right now, only $310, so I was looking it over pretty close (but ultimately did not buy).
Now for both of these kits, you are definitely running the front CV joints at a harsher angle. The kits drop the rear subframe, but not the front subframe. You basically get nothing but strut spacers in the front, which means your front wheels are dropping relative to the transaxle and therefor those axles are increasing their angle. If you need more proof, just look at step 10 in the Teraflex instructions, which actually have you CUT a chunk of metal off of your front struts to avoid it kissing the CV axle at full flex (with the swaybars disconnected).
Both of these kits are essentially hybrid lifts. The front portion I would call a true "suspension lift" because it DOES push down the front wheels, and nothing else. The oil pan and transmission go UP with the rest of the body, therefor suspension lift. Now in the back, they are putting spacers underneath the entire subframe so your rear diff lowers WITH your wheels and this portion I would call a "body lift" because the rear diff gains no extra clearance. It does keep the rear CV joints running at their original angle.
No subframe spacers in the front means CVs run at increased angle means those parts are at risk for increased wear and shortened life, period.
Its pretty clear these budget lifts are more for cosmetics than seriously helping you clear more obstacles (which is in keeping with the car itself I'd say, since it is a glorified car..) Otherwise they wouldn't drop the rear diff down and leave it in harms way. I wonder if its really necessary to do the spacers on the rear subframe. I mean, if its somewhat ok to run the front ones at more angle why not do the same with the rear? Keep that diff tucked up, right? Especially if you are only talking 1.5 inch or something, once you get to 2" or beyond obviously you are changing the CV angle quite a bit.
We know that the same tires fit either way, just above is one of many examples of people running a 29" tire with no lift. Its really only spacers you need to get to 29", but a little more wheel well clearance would be good still.
Its interesting stuff but it clearly doesn't amount to much. At least the price reflects that. Its all for fun anyways right but fun isn't in my current forecast. I probably get to spend $310 on stain for the house instead, it sounds like.
I would definitely like to go to a 235/65/17 tire. I have the 225's now and they look really thin to me. As above mentioned, any idea what size wheel spacer I would need?The teraflex 1.5" kit advertises up to a 225/65R17 tire. To get to 235 you need spacers more than you need a lift, as you have issues with the lateral clearance on the strut towers before you have issues rubbing the fender well.
Thanks for explaining the suspension geometry! Sounds like the front CV's would be taking most of the abuse....This weekend I (re)watched the install videos for both the teraflex and the daystar kit, and went over the parts lists. I was doing this because the Teraflex kit is pretty cheap on amazon right now, only $310, so I was looking it over pretty close (but ultimately did not buy).
Now for both of these kits, you are definitely running the front CV joints at a harsher angle. The kits drop the rear subframe, but not the front subframe. You basically get nothing but strut spacers in the front, which means your front wheels are dropping relative to the transaxle and therefor those axles are increasing their angle. If you need more proof, just look at step 10 in the Teraflex instructions, which actually have you CUT a chunk of metal off of your front struts to avoid it kissing the CV axle at full flex (with the swaybars disconnected).
Both of these kits are essentially hybrid lifts. The front portion I would call a true "suspension lift" because it DOES push down the front wheels, and nothing else. The oil pan and transmission go UP with the rest of the body, therefor suspension lift. Now in the back, they are putting spacers underneath the entire subframe so your rear diff lowers WITH your wheels and this portion I would call a "body lift" because the rear diff gains no extra clearance. It does keep the rear CV joints running at their original angle.
No subframe spacers in the front means CVs run at increased angle means those parts are at risk for increased wear and shortened life, period.
That's really all it is, just playing around with it and having some fun. My little Trailhawk will never be a JK Rubicon. LOL!Its interesting stuff but it clearly doesn't amount to much. At least the price reflects that. Its all for fun anyways right but fun isn't in my current forecast.
That sounds reasonable to me. So, think it's fairly safe to say spacers and a 235/65/17's would be a good bet. When I get some time, going to take a trip to see my tire guy. Just want to see the difference in width between the 225's and the 235's.I think the biggest we have heard of here without a lift is the 235/65R17, probably with 1.25" spacers, but I cannot confirm any of that would need to dig through the forum and do some googling. I have it stuck in my head that everyone has maxed out around 29" tall and 9.5" wide, and it seems like the spacers have been the make-or-break key but the smaller lifts still help clearance for mud and snow/ice that can build up in the fenderwells. Like I said, would need to do some digging to see what others have claimed worked for them.
Quoted for truth right here!!! LOL!! You're absolutely correct. I'm reminded of that old commercial that says...."They can't put anything on the internet that's not true!"I say claimed because there are a lot of people out there who live in denial. They want to make something work through sheer willpower, so they will come on here and be like "eyyyy I fut sum 255/55R18 on muy 2018 sport, kno rubbin at all!"
Still though, your aproach to the topic at hand seems very straightforward and logic based. Cheers!Take two grains for anything I say, I'm still rolling on my original stock tires and wheels and have never tried any of it myself so far.
My wife and I have similar thoughts and discussions all the time. We max out our Compass' capabilities regularly. Sometimes its being used like a truck, towing right at the limits. Sometimes we venture off the pavement and have to use 100% of our ground clearance and crawl super carefully to avoid damage or getting stuck. Sometimes we get a big drop of snow overnight in the winter and we just barely manage to get around (this has been an issue of the low profile street tires they send on the limited trim, switching to better tires and rims this winter). When we go camping or adventuring we often run out of cargo space and so we invested in both a rear cargo rack and a thule roof box.bluestar said:there's this nagging little part of me that wonders if I should have just have bought a damn Wrangler!
That really seems to be the conundrum, should we have bought Wranglers! LOL! For my specific situation, I needed a proper winter vehicle. Living in the Midwest the winters and snow can be brutal. Not really looking for off road trail running, just something to tear through the snow. A have a 2018 Mustang GT that, at this point, has taken on a life of it's own. That's my money pit and obviously something I can't and won't drive through the winter. As another consideration, I'll be retiring from the job in just over three years. My wife and I are planning on relocating to Florida. (Her folks are out there in a suburb of Orlando.) For that I want a vehicle that doesn't sit low to the ground. I've driven through some flooded streets out there and know it can get bad. There's also a part of me that likes the limitless supply of parts available for the Wrangler. You can basically build one from the ground up. So, at this point, we'll see how it goes.My wife and I have similar thoughts and discussions all the time. We max out our Compass' capabilities regularly. Sometimes its being used like a truck, towing right at the limits. Sometimes we venture off the pavement and have to use 100% of our ground clearance and crawl super carefully to avoid damage or getting stuck. Sometimes we get a big drop of snow overnight in the winter and we just barely manage to get around (this has been an issue of the low profile street tires they send on the limited trim, switching to better tires and rims this winter). When we go camping or adventuring we often run out of cargo space and so we invested in both a rear cargo rack and a thule roof box.
I love the heated seats and steering wheel! Also really like the remote start, navigation, and panoramic roof!Beyond that, it still has to function as a daily driver and for that it sips fuel slowly and provides a heck of a lot of creature comforts. Can't beat that heated wheel and the heated seats with remote start in the winter.
Here's a quick pic of the money pit! LOL
Well I'm not trying to piss you off I know I'm not articulating what I mean very well through the text, I'm just saying if there are no spacers for the front subframe and the engine and transmission are mounted to that subframe, then the engine and the transmission don't move from their original location, so the spot where the axles come out of the transmission is the same, yes? And then you put spacers on the front struts so they move down relative to the body and the transmission and the front axles have to follow that so... ?84z28 said:Sweet Jesus how do you push the wheels down, when you put a spacer in between the strut and the body it lifts the body up and who would have thought that the CV shaft "Might" hit the strut with the sway bar disconnected with flex and only when its disconnected
I think the Compass fits the bill. Its not like a Wrangler is well insulated, hard top or soft. The super short wheelbase of the (2 door) wrangler reportedly makes them super squirley to handle on the road on ice. There is what, 18 or 19 inches of advertised water fording capability for the Compass? It keeps up with a wrangler just fine until you hit mud or rocks.bluestar said:I needed a proper winter vehicle
Well I'm not trying to piss you off I know I'm not articulating what I mean very well through the text, I'm just saying if there are no spacers for the front subframe and the engine and transmission are mounted to that subframe, then the engine and the transmission don't move from their original location, so the spot where the axles come out of the transmission is the same, yes? And then you put spacers on the front struts so they move down relative to the body and the transmission and the front axles have to follow that so... ?
Purchased my TH in Dec of last year. Bought used with 30K. Honestly had no complaints in the winter. Pretty much went through everything with ease. The Pirellis were fantastic in the snow. Not really any noticeable road noise and performs very well in the rain. Was kinda wishing some of the snow would have been deeper! LOLI think the Compass fits the bill. Its not like a Wrangler is well insulated, hard top or soft. The super short wheelbase of the (2 door) wrangler reportedly makes them super squirley to handle on the road on ice. There is what, 18 or 19 inches of advertised water fording capability for the Compass? It keeps up with a wrangler just fine until you hit mud or rocks.
Hey total gear shift you should do a short video of the flowmaster, curious to know what that sounds like. Also would be interested in a review of how the pirelli scorpions do on snow.
Thanks. I think the TH rims are pretty decent looking. You'll be really happy with the upgrade.That looks good. I think eventually we would like to have those exact tires on the 17 inch set of TH rims I bought from jim10. They don't make a workable size of the scorpions for our 18 inch rims so I think I am going to end up with some goodyear assurance weatherreadys on that set. Should be a good all-around tire for everything except the most extreme parts of winter and trails.
Thats all a long ways off though, the factory wildpeaks on the 17" set are hardly used and we are cheap, so I plan to run those upwards of a couple years until they are wore out. I'm not jazzed to be putting 215 width tires on but I'll get over it. I think 225 is about perfect for this buggy for the way we use it. 215 is probably going to do better in the winter but I expect the on-road handling to suffer a little and I just don't like that skinny tire look as much. 235 would definitely look the best but looks aren't everything, the wider you go the more you lose MPG and snow/ice performance, then add "taller" to the mix factoring in the perceived power loss and clearance issues and its just too much headache (I'm averse to putting spacers on or seeking aftermarket rims with different offset).
In all honesty....I'm leaning towards going with a Wrangler. Didn't mention this before as it wasn't really pertinent to the conversation, but getting a rough shift that's not gone away. I've had it at the dealer twice and they've done a several software updates but it still hasn't fixed the problem. I know the nine speed trans can be problematic and difficult to diagnose. For me, this is just another reason to make the switch. At the end of the day, this is my second car/winter driver. The Mustang is my main focus.
I kinda like it loud! LOL The Mustang is "wake the dead loud!" I've got Pypes Long Tube Headers, high flow cats, X pipe/Magnaflow Bullet Mufflers, and an MBRP muffler delete axle back. Not to mention CAI and dyno tune! My neighbors hate me! LOL!!!!I actually like the stock exhaust system, it makes enough quiet growl to make me happy without being obnoxious, and it doesn't loudly announce to the cars around me when I am blasting 5k RPMs just to try to keep up with the minivans that are leaving the stoplight with me (dodge caravans are quick!). With the multi-air the cold starts actually sound pretty high-performance to me, but once warmed up its pretty much silent and thats ok too.
Well I think it really depends on how much of a spacer you are adding to the struts. The taller spacer you put on the struts (without changing anything else) the more angle the CV axles have to run at (all the time) to get "down" to where you have pushed the wheels from the body. For a 1 inch, or 1.5 inch, even a 1 & 5/8" I don't think its any problem. Bilstein currently makes a set of replacement struts for the Renegade that are 1" longer than stock that provides the same overall effect (I'm hoping they will come out with those for the Compass soon, its a way better route than spacers).84z28 said:Have you ever pondered that the subframe in the front doesnt need to be dropped
Well I think it really depends on how much of a spacer you are adding to the struts. The taller spacer you put on the struts (without changing anything else) the more angle the CV axles have to run at (all the time) to get "down" to where you have pushed the wheels from the body. For a 1 inch, or 1.5 inch, even a 1 & 5/8" I don't think its any problem. Bilstein currently makes a set of replacement struts for the Renegade that are 1" longer than stock that provides the same overall effect (I'm hoping they will come out with those for the Compass soon, its a way better route than spacers).
Now I think once you get to a 2" spacer, you've likely reached or started to exceed the limit of how much extra angle you can add to the CV axles and still expect any kind of longevity from them. Harsher angles cause CV joints to wear faster, this is really well known and I don't need to explain why because you can google it really easily.
You can also "preview" the effect really easily at home. Take your floor jack and a tape measure, go look at the current angle of the front CVs and keep that angle in your head, now use your jack to lift on the subframe about 2 inches. Now look at the axle again and note the increased angle. This is the extra angle you will have forced it to run at all the time on the road. This is an angle that is not the angle the engineers intended for it to run at and meet its longevity goals. Crank the jack up some more if you want to see the effect exaggerated.
A little bit probably won't make a huge difference. 2+ inches, it might, and that's all I'm saying. You should be conscious of the potential side effects of this. Replacing CVs isn't a huge deal, kinda spendy, might be worth it, its just something to be aware of.
If and when Bilstein releases the 1" longer struts for the Compass, I think that would be the best and most ideal route. No goofy spacers to create a new point for issues to occur between the body and strut contact. The Renegade folks say it fixes the clearance issue at the bottom of the strut tower. Rear diff stays in its original tucked up location. You end up maxing out at the same 29" tire no matter what, so who cars about the difference of 1" or 2"? (Thats a good setup for a joke right there...)
You have to do the crazy 4" lift to get into 30" tire land so, might as well play it slightly safer (in my opinion) and stick to around 1", hopefully gained from strut length.
But like I always say, its a free country so anybody who wants to jam those spacers in I say have fun!
Again, I think you are just getting hung up on the way I am (failing) to describe what I mean, but just because I can't explain it in a way you understand doesn't mean I'm wrong.84z28 said:Once you realize the wheels are static and you're put a spacer on top of the strut to move the body up youll be alright