Considering new wheels and tires - Jeep Compass Forum
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post #1 of 26 Old 05-03-2017, 05:43 PM Thread Starter
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Considering new wheels and tires

Hi,

Got my Compass last fall (2014, 4x4, six speed auto) and put steel 16" Patriot wheels and 225/70/16 General Altimax Arctics on it for the winter. The tires worked great in ice and snow and I'm very happy with them. They were also my first set of General tires and have raised my opinion of that brand.
Now however I need a set for summer. I don't care so much about wheels. Alloys would be preferred for less weight but I'd consider plain steel wheels also. Tires are the big thing. I don't do much highway driving with the Compass so on road capabilities are secondary. Ice and snow is not an issue as this set is for warm weather only. I don't do enough road miles for tread wear to matter, similarly not much concern over road noise or fuel economy.
I think (not totally sure) I want an MT tire with low load index. This is because I do a lot of bumping along over rough terrain and I would like the tires to absorb the impacts. Secondly the tires need to be 'tough' and have some mud capability. Most places I go in warm weather involve driving some muddy trails.
So for example https://www.bfgoodrichtires.ca/produ....html#journey1 , a mud tire with a C load range or 104 load index.
Open for comments and suggestions, thanks.
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post #2 of 26 Old 05-04-2017, 05:18 PM
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So what you're looking for is a set of tires for summer off-road driving while still giving you a comfortable ride?
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post #3 of 26 Old 05-05-2017, 01:32 AM Thread Starter
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I wouldn't say I am concerned about 'comfort' but I want a balance between the response of the suspension, and the tires, in terms of their response to impacts. Many MT tires come in a load range E and they would be appropriate for a heavier vehicle. But on a lighter vehicle such as a Compass they would have a 'hard' ride - they would transmit more of the impact directly to the suspension. I think part of the tire selection process should be to attempt to stay close to the stock load index.
Also I don't perceive the Compass suspension as being particularly strong. I don't want to increase stress and wear on it.
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post #4 of 26 Old 05-09-2017, 03:36 PM Thread Starter
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I'm not really focused on appearance of the wheels but I have been looking at used alloys for less weight. I noticed a Kijiji ad for 1998 Grand Cherokee alloy wheels. In 1998 they were still 5 x 114.3 bolt pattern; these are 16" x 7" with 25.4 offset (I believe). From Wheel Offset Calculator | 1010Tires.com Discount Online Tire and Wheel Store that extends the wheel outward 21 mm and adds 9 mm clearance on the vehicle side of the wheel.

These are a simple 5 spoke design which I think should be easier to clean. Worst possible design I think would be 'snowflake' style ie it would always be packing up with dirt and mud

Last edited by zoner99; 05-09-2017 at 03:41 PM.
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post #5 of 26 Old 05-21-2017, 03:22 PM Thread Starter
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I've been really busy with a new project at work and haven't had time to look into this very much. I did find a set of used 235/75r15 steel rims and tires that fit. They look like this : http://www.autoamenity.com/KartList/IMP-05.htm Actually fit very well and were even hub centric. They are sort of styled steel rims with plastic fake chrome covers, supposedly a stock TJ wheel. Tires are first gen BF Dueler Revo's, in driveable condition. I thought these were perfect, I would toss the covers, wire brush and slap paint on the wheels, and at some point go to new tires. However my wife complained that I 'can't' put old and crappy looking wheels on the Compass. I did also find a set of new 15" alloys that fit reasonably well. These were new rims but the seller had obviously had them for a while and sold them for a decent price. http://imgur.com/AIzBheL These are Vision brand, Torque model, 15 x7" with +6 mm offset. They are visually acceptable to the wifey. All good until I took them home and found that they were actually a staggered set of two 15X7s and two 15x8s. Both the used and new stuff was from a local guy who deals in tires and wheels from his farm. He didn't realize they were a staggered set either. Unfortunately it is a holiday weekend so it will be Tuesday before he can contact the distributor. Might be able to get two more 15x7's or might have to look at other wheels.

Last edited by zoner99; 05-21-2017 at 03:28 PM.
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post #6 of 26 Old 05-26-2017, 09:35 PM Thread Starter
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So now : http://www.visionwheel.com/wheel/1135/525/in 15x7. Now looking for tires in 235/75r15, or possibly 225. One point I hadn't considered is that the wheels have max tire diameter ratings of 28.9". Which is approx what a 235/75 is, but, couldn't go any larger. The wife also objects to overly aggressive tires so I'm looking at ATs rather than MTs. The wheels have an old school look to them so I am thinking white letter or outlined white letter tires would look good with them.

Last edited by zoner99; 05-29-2017 at 09:42 AM. Reason: correction
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post #7 of 26 Old 05-27-2017, 11:40 AM Thread Starter
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Why 15"s I think it is mostly for more tire volume/sidewall height which is an advantage off-road. Some other points:

All else being equal, the load index of a 15" vs a 16" will typically be lower. So you can get a 15" LT tire without having a rougher ride. LTs generally are better for rough conditions and will typically have more tread depth than a P metric version of the same tire. But even some 15" LTs are load range E which I think is way too much for a Compass - I'm looking for load range C or load index of approx 104.

There are a lot of LT tire options in 235/75r15, and are generally a bit cheaper than 16 or 17s for the same tire.

LT vs P-metric The LT designation itself doesn't mean a tire is designed for off-road use, it just refers to weight carrying capacity when used in a light truck cargo carrying application. LTs are designed with more safety factor, so in terms of weight capacity an LT tire rated for 2000 lbs is roughly the same as a P-metric rated for 2200 lbs. Flotation sizes such as 33x10.5 generally are intended for off-road use and would be the first choice except that there aren't many flotation sizes that will fit a Compass. LTs or p-metrics that are specifically designed for off-road use are the way to go.

Understanding Tire Load Ratings

https://www.nittotire.com/media/1529...TSD-12-011.pdf

https://www.toyotires.com/tires-101/...flation-tables
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post #8 of 26 Old 05-28-2017, 04:28 PM Thread Starter
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Pinch Weld Mod or Not The stock 225/60r17s, with minimal tread height left, clear the pinch weld by 2 1/8" when turned to the closest point. Going to 235/75/r15s is roughly a 1.3" gain in overall diameter so naively one could expect it to clear. However the 15" rims will move through a larger arc as the (front) wheel turns due to less offset (wheel is further from the vehicle). I made up a cardboard cut out of the profile of a 235/57r15 tire and mounted one of the bare 15" rims to a front axle. From that little experiment it looks like the tire would clear at normal height but could hit as the suspension moves. That also jives with what I've seen just by trying on different wheels and tires. Increased offset helps avoid hitting the pinch weld, but for 15" rims there needs to be low to zero offset in order to clear the calipers. It appears that in general a 15" wheel at approx 0 offset, assuming it clears the calipers (depends on the wheel's cross-sectional profile) with 225/75r15s would be a bolt on. 235/75r15s may need the pinch weld mod and possibly some liner trimming. With a lift I suspect the liners would clear but the PWM would be needed, due to the curve of the PW.

BTW I tried on a TJ "Ecco" wheel that was 15x7 and +35 mm offset. The ID of those wheels tapers toward the outside of the wheel, so they hit the Compass's calipers. I didn't measure it but it looked like they would work with a 1" or 1.25" spacer (giving approx 10 or 4 mm offset). The Vision alloy wheels also have a taper but it is much less and they clear.
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post #9 of 26 Old 06-03-2017, 03:10 AM Thread Starter
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I did finally settle upon a set of tires: Yokohama Geolandar 2015s in the LT size https://tire.yokohama.ca/tires/geolandar-a-t-g015 The difference between P metric and LT sizes is often somewhat unclear, but the Yokohama website showed both P235/75r15 and the LT235/75r15 in images and specs. The LT has a little more aggressive tread design, larger tread voids, and more tread depth. Although frankly the P-metric size was a reasonable option for a light duty Jeep such as a Compass I went with LTs. Goodyear Duratracs were on sale at the local Canadian Tire, the following week the BF Goodrich KO2's were on sale also, but the Yokohamas seemed to be the closest fit to the design of the Compass, as I see it at least. Hopefully the tires will be in early next week; it will be interesting to see the wheels and tires mounted up and see if it all works visually and dynamically as I expect.
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post #10 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 08:22 AM Thread Starter
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post #11 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 07:25 PM
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Alright, I gotta admit... that's typically not my style at all, but darn that looks pretty cool as heck! It looks super darn aggressive. Does it ride differently?
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post #12 of 26 Old 06-06-2017, 09:52 PM Thread Starter
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As far as style I'd say it's old school, but I'm old so that's ok Rides pretty much as you'd expect: the bigger tires smooth out small bumps, but they are LTs so they aren't completely cushy either. Being LTs also they have some sidewall stiffness so response to steering input is okay. I've pushed them pretty hard on freeway ramps in wet and dry conditions and I can feel tire and tread flex but they have plenty of grip. They are 17/32's after all. Minor tread hum in the 20 to 40 mph range, beyond that speed I can't hear anything above normal wind noise. Seem like great tires so far.
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post #13 of 26 Old 06-26-2017, 11:04 PM Thread Starter
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Some follow up notes. These are 29" tires; seems perfectly fine with the 2.4/six speed auto. Very minor effect on shift points, a hill where it would shift between 4th and 5th before it now stays in 4th. Theoretically it should affect acceleration and braking but the difference isn't perceptible to me.

I did the PWM before getting the tires, mostly because I was considering 30" tires also. No rubbing or interference issues at all. No lift yet either.

For anyone considering 15" rims a quick check is to measure the inside diameter at the hub flange. You need a full 14" across, and some space outward (away from the vehicle side) around the hub flange. Wheel designs vary a lot but this is a quick check.

Tire load range is important. These Yokohamas are load range C, or load index 104. I would be leery of anything higher than that on a Compass.
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post #14 of 26 Old 06-27-2017, 06:57 PM
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Thanks for the updates! I was pretty sure the acceleration and all of that wouldn't feel much different at all bt good to hear that it isn't noticeable for sure. Looking at those tires I would have thought they would be pretty roof though. What psi are you running on them?
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post #15 of 26 Old 06-27-2017, 09:08 PM Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NorthStar View Post
Thanks for the updates! I was pretty sure the acceleration and all of that wouldn't feel much different at all bt good to hear that it isn't noticeable for sure. Looking at those tires I would have thought they would be pretty roof though. What psi are you running on them?
The tire installer put them at 35 psi, he thought they might need more pressure. I'm at 28 psi cold rear and 30 front now, but I haven't really experimented with it yet. It understeers a bit at those pressures. I might need to raise the pressures, or stop cornering like it's a sports car.
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post #16 of 26 Old 06-29-2017, 05:48 PM
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Hm... I'd say keep cornering like a sports car and up the pressure.. sounds like the more fun option

What pressures are the tires rated to be at? I personally constantly mess around with tire pressures every season until I find that sweet spot haha.
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post #17 of 26 Old 06-30-2017, 01:04 AM Thread Starter
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They are rated as max load at 50 psi. However there is no way I could could ever load them to full load on this vehicle (1985 lbs x 4 = 7940 lbs, but the Compass is about 3600 lbs). At 35 psi the rears weren't touching the ground on the outer edge of the tread. I suspect the rears really need to be about 25 psi for road use.
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post #18 of 26 Old 10-29-2017, 02:07 PM Thread Starter
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Update: the Yoko G015s are snow and ice rated but I'm really doubtful about using them in the winter. It's been a relatively warm and dry fall here but recently we had some rainy and cool days. These tires always had a tendency to slide while cornering on wet pavement but once the outside temp got down around 5C (40F) they really lost grip. Easy to kick the vehicle into a four wheel slide in turns, poor braking etc. Felt like driving on snow, actually.
I suspect that the issue is that these are LT's and are intended to carry a lot more load than a little Compass.
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post #19 of 26 Old 11-04-2017, 02:13 PM Thread Starter
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I e-mailed Yokohama about the loss of grip issue:

Good day Mr. Zoner,
Thank you for contacting Yokohama Canada Inc.
The Geolandar A/T G015 is an all-terrain tire with the 3-peaked mountain snowflake symbol. This is an all-terrain tire and a good compromise for the people who would like to keep the same tire all year around.
We recommend to verify the air pressures.
The recommended air pressures by the vehicle manufacturer can be valid on the vehicle placard usually located in the driver's door jam


I expect they are on the money about the air pressure and I thought the same thing anyways. I had been out back in the ranch and was aired down a bit (25 psi), and I didn't bother topping them back up. Then with the cooler temps the pressure would have dropped further. Unfortunately we are back into the weird warm weather again so I haven't been able to try higher air pressures in the same conditions yet.
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post #20 of 26 Old 11-06-2017, 03:24 PM
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Curious to hear about any snow experiences you get as they come, I'm teetering on getting some G015s for our compass but we really don't want to drop $800 to replace new tires on a new vehicle. Not sure we will have much choice though. On my drive Saturday morning was icy and the stupid continentals just would not stay running straight. 6 miles of straight, new paved road and the entire time all I was doing was continuous micro-corrections on the steering wheel as the whole boat shifted left and right, left and right, left and right. Could barely make 45 MPH. Darn short-wheelbase vehicles.
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post #21 of 26 Old 11-06-2017, 04:24 PM Thread Starter
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Personally I always factor in the tires when buying a vehicle, used or new. And usually I want different rims and tires anyways. The problem here is that they are name brand tires and unless you research them you don't know how bad they are, so it is deceptive.

Still weirdly warm weather here, but we had rain yesterday. With the GO15's at 32/32 psi I was still sliding on pavement. It's a very controllable slide, ie they don't suddenly break loose or anything. Again, it feels like driving on snow. That was at 60F. I was also out back in the mud and leaves, up and down muddy and steep hills and along a forest trail with some rock. They seemed perfectly fine in those conditions, I even deliberately tried stopping half way up on climbs and restarting and really had no problems.
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post #22 of 26 Old 03-23-2018, 07:32 PM Thread Starter
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Minor update. I got a set of plastic centering rings from Summit. I took the G015's off for most of the winter due to the sliding issue. Put them back on recently - they seemed mostly ok in light snow, not great grip but acceptable. Definitely a difference between straight line starting and stopping, in which case they are ok, and cornering, where they have quite weak grip. Best grip seems to be when at 28/25 psi front/rear.
My winter tires - the General Altimax Arctics - were awesome throughout the winter.
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post #23 of 26 Old 11-06-2018, 05:43 PM
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Can you either post or send me a message with which steel wheels you got exactly? I'm looking to do the same thing. Thanks
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post #24 of 26 Old 12-01-2018, 02:33 PM Thread Starter
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Sorry I did not see your post until now. I have stock steel Patriot 16" rims for my winter tires.
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post #25 of 26 Old 12-01-2018, 02:57 PM Thread Starter
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update. I put the Geolandars back on early this past spring, and then we had some late season snow and ice. I was happy with their performance - they chewed through deep snow and performed well on wet ice. This fall I also noted that the sideways sliding issue on wet roads in cool temps went away. They began developing normal cornering grip (normal for ATs) for some reason, I would say it is something to do with wearing in the tread? wear is very minor but I can't think of any other reason.
I left them on this fall hoping they would be okay. The first snowfall, which was actually a small layer of ice with ice pellets and snow, the tires drove and cornered well. But the first stop sign I came to (at higher elevation) I just sailed right through, luckily I was alone on the road. The ABS was hammering away but the vehicle didn't seem to slow down at all, I actually looked in the rearview wondering if somehow I was being pushed or something. I went home, swapped back to the General Arctics and went right back out in the same conditions about 45 minutes later. The Generals slid a bit too when stopping, but they generated stopping force and would actually stop the vehicle.
All in all, considering the times I have slid off the road or into the oncoming lane in cold and wet conditions, plus sliding through this stop sign, I have to say these tires are inconsistent and dangerous in these conditions. I like these tires otherwise, and I suspect they would work better on a heavier vehicle, but I think I'm going to have to replace them with something else in the spring.
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post #26 of 26 Old 12-02-2018, 02:15 AM
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I just got a set of General Altimax Artics, and for the first time in my life I got them studded. I've had them in several snowstorms already, one particularly nasty one, and these tires are excellent. Also had my Wife's Patriot out in the snow this week with unstudded Altimax Artics and they handled fine on hilly, winding rural roads.
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