Transmission learns your driving style and adjust the shifting sequence/points accordingly. I dont remember the exactly numbers but I think it takes something like 200-300 miles to do so.I have done some transmission research and this may have been one of the videos I watched.
I tried autostick after reading your post and now that I've gotten the hang of it it seems like I wont be able to go back. The shift programming in the car is so slow and misguided in comparison to doing it yourself.
It also gave me a little bit of hope in that eventually jeep will figure out the programming a little more because the transmission seems to work fine in autostick.
The 4fwd noise I have less hope for but oh well.
I think one of the issues is that the gear changes in this particular transmission has to be sequential. I have driven other cars with 8 or even 10 gears, but those also could down or up shift non sequentially. So the car can downshift from 10 to 4 in a single gear change, and do the oposite upshifting as well.. In our case, it basically needs to do it as 8-7-6-5-4.Agreed, the "learning algorithm" or whatever they programmed into this thing to try to "learn" the driver's style and preferred shift points is a total detriment to anyone except the most consistent of drivers in the most consistent of climates. It does not do well with how a person's driving may change from day to day, week to week, season to season, different weather conditions, etc. If I am by myself late for work I like to pretend to be a nascar driver, the next day if I am giving grandma a ride I will be driving much differently. When the weather is good I go faster, when its bad I slow down. The computer does not keep up with these changes for me, its always a day behind in how I want to drive and it drives me nuts. I wish I could just have every point "fixed" and have it be consistent. This programming seems to affect the throttle response as well as the shift points. It makes sense that turning off ESC would bypass a table of dynamic learned values or something similar, but I still don't like the idea of doing that on the road.
This 4 cylinder actually makes terrific power, for what it is, but the computer(s) make terrible use of it. In normal use there seems to be just gobs of software dampening on throttle response, shift points and shift speeds, etc. Playing around with autostick/esc off, mud mode, and sometimes by luck of the draw driving normally, it will really surprise you how much gumption it can have. Then the computer goes and reigns it in.
Like was said above the feeling of gutlessness on the highway is the worst, because of the umpteen overdrives. Most of us are used to a 4 speed automatic car downshifting and getting much more leverage to "go", but downshifting in this heavy car from overdrive-number-three (or four) to overdrive-number-two, or even to overdrive-number-1, it has downshifted maybe several times but you are still trying to accelerate in a ratio greater than 1:1, which doesn't work great. Highway cruising tends to be in 8th gear, you gotta drop all the way to 4th before you are under the 1:1 ratio (5th), which is obviously pretty dramatic and not very smooth as we have all experienced. Add to that, if anyone watched the videos on this transmission there are technical reasons that crossing from 4th to 5th or vise-versa takes much longer than most of the other shifts which are noticeable microseconds added to our frustration...
Indeed, rowing your own gears in autostick and staying under 5th gear until you are actually ready to cruise at a steady speed for a while (done merging and all that) will bring back your belief in the motor's vigor. The poor engine gets a bad rap but its not really to blame.
When traffic suddenly flares up and causes me to switch from cruising-attitude to nascar-attitude, I'll stop the gas to get the computer to drop 4 gears and then once it completes that I will slap the auto-stick over to manual mode so it will hold that gear until I am done negotiating the traffic.
Similarly on a windy day (or hilly terrain) when I am against the wind and it keeps dropping a gear and going back and forth, about the third time it downshifts I'll slap the autostick so it can quit the whole shifting too-and-fro business. The manual actually says something to the effect that this is recommended when the conditions are causing frequent shifts.
I often wonder if those transmission and pedal devices they sell would help alleviate any of this. Might mask some of it but it is what it is I think, for the most part.
Yeah, its "normal" for the 9-speed to lag when downshifting on a descent from 5 to 4. What's really weird is that the lag is long enough to grab a sip of my coffee before it finds 4 and although the reason I'm downshifting is to slow me down, my Compass actually gains speed during that lag -- so much so that when 4 finally engages its not enough to slow the vehicle from its now higher speed, so it has to go to 3 to make any appreciable difference, and of course the tachometer (engine speed) makes a huge jump to accommodate the much lower gear ratio.This is timely, I just received my Compass and was wondering what was going on when I downshifted from what I think is 5th gear to 4th gear. I noticed that when slowing down, it seems like the RPM's go up noticeably, almost like when you would downshift manually too soon. Is this due to the ZF 9speed that is mentioned in the video?
Your Compass accelerates in speed when downshifting from 5 to 4?Yeah, its "normal" for the 9-speed to lag when downshifting on a descent from 5 to 4. What's really weird is that the lag is long enough to grab a sip of my coffee before it finds 4 and although the reason I'm downshifting is to slow me down, my Compass actually gains speed during that lag -- so much so that when 4 finally engages its not enough to slow the vehicle from its now higher speed, so it has to go to 3 to make any appreciable difference, and of course the tachometer (engine speed) makes a huge jump to accommodate the much lower gear ratio.
Yes, when I'm descending a hill and using the transmission to hold me back. I'm not being powered forward by the engine; its just the natural pull of gravity. My Compass is coasting during the lapse between 5 and 4.Your Compass accelerates in speed when downshifting from 5 to 4?
I dont think it is as extreme as you describe, it is not mechanically possible for the car to go from 8th to 2nd gear anyways, it needs to do it sequentially. So what you describe cannot happen (plus it wont be at 8th gear at 80 km/h, it will be either 6th or 7th,). The issue is mainly with highway acceleration as the transmission needs to disengage 1 to 4 overdrives and then downshift, that takes time. Using autostick to put the tranny into the 4th or 5th gear before passing a car helps a lot.I bought the manual transmission 6 speed and feel like there is decent power for what it is (a 4 cylinder).
Many modern 7-10 speed transmissions are programmed to be very docile and for fuel efficiency not proper shifting unfortunately.
Your diving along at 80km and turn a 90 degree right turn onto another street and car still sitting in 8th gear even after you made the turn, then 4 second later drops to 2nd and the car chirps along at full speed kind of example. Just frustrating and not more efficient in real life I think its the number look good on paper.
The trailhawk trims have a lower final drive ratio in the differentials and are programmed to start in 2nd, all the other trim levels normally start in first with varying final drives (Limited trim has the highest gearing). The reason the trailhawks set 1st gear aside is that is what they use for their "low range" as there is no transfer case.SJH said:I was also under the impression that the Jeep zf9hp starts in 1st, however, i did read that honda's zf9 speed has been programed to start in 2nd.
I think TH start in 2nd gear in snow mode as well, at least initially. If you spin tires a lot, it feels much more reserved afterwards so maybe it switches to start at 3 if there is excessive tire spinning in the current cycle. But that might be tuning down of the throttle control as well, as we know that the car can ECM can change the sensitivity of the throttle control.The trailhawk trims have a lower final drive ratio in the differentials and are programmed to start in 2nd, all the other trim levels normally start in first with varying final drives (Limited trim has the highest gearing). The reason the trailhawks set 1st gear aside is that is what they use for their "low range" as there is no transfer case.
There are exceptions, like in snow-mode the non-TH trims start out in 2nd but I want to say the TH will start in 3rd in its snow mode (not 100% sure about that).
I don't know if the 9 speed can skip gears or not when it needs to go from 8th to 4th but either way, it takes a hell of a long time for it to dig down to 4th gear and its a very dramatic looking/sounding event to passengers. Its just not a street-performance oriented device, which is fine. The option to manually shift it allows me to cover most use cases.