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Engine "Start/Stop"

130K views 108 replies 47 participants last post by  bsf251 
#1 · (Edited by Moderator)
New to a vehicle with the "Start/Stop" Engine System.

I noticed that the Dash was showing the "A" in "amber" with an "exclamation" mark (!) beside it. Also, when starting the vehicle it gives a message "Start/Stop Unavailable Service Start/Stop System"

I just picked this vehicle up as a dealer demo, and am wondering if the system was "overridden"? (It was the dealership's wife that was driving this)

I called the Service Dept and they asked if the battery had recently been removed. (I have no idea) They suggested trying it for a few days to see if the system "resets" itself.

Worst case scenario ................... I take it in for service.

Any suggestions?????
 
#2 ·
There is a switch under the hood some have disabled the system by bending the bracket so the switch no longer contacts the hood. It is a great idea but to my understanding this will also disable remote start. I don't know if this would throw a code but might be worth looking at. The only other thing I have seen often posted on this is one of the batteries being weak. I would try driving a bit and see if it corrects itself!
 
#4 ·
New to a vehicle with the "Start/Stop" Engine System.

I noticed that the Dash was showing the "A" in "amber" with an "exclamation" mark (!) beside it. Also, when starting the vehicle it gives a message "Start/Stop Unavailable Service Start/Stop System"

I just picked this vehicle up as a dealer demo, and am wondering if the system was "overridden"? (It was the dealerships wife that was driving this)

I called the Service Dept and they asked if the battery had recently been removed. (I have no idea) They suggested trying it for a few days to see if the system "resets" itself.

Worst case scenario ................... I take it in for service.

Any suggestions?????

Hi 10-64,
We recognize that you are just reaching out to other forum members at this time for advice. However, if you need any additional assistance when you visit the dealer, please feel free to send us a PM with additional information.
Julie
Jeep Social Care Specialist
 
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#6 ·
The secondary battery is probably weak. If it has low voltage it will disable the start/stop when you start the vehicle. Mine does it every once in awhile if I let the car sit for longer than a day without driving it, but once I drive it for 5 minutes, turn the vehicle off and back on again start/stop is enabled again and then I push the button to disable it LOL

There has been a bunch of people that have had the secondary battery replaced due to being bad.

How the start/stop system works is you have two batteries:
The main battery (normal automotive battery) which has cranking power (amps) to start the car via the starter.
The secondary battery which is just a high capacity battery but with very little amps and cannot power the starter (very similar to a car audio battery)

When you stop at a light and the engine shuts off, everything (radio, lights, heater..etc) gets powered by the secondary battery, when you let off the brake and the engine starts back up (via the main battery) everything continues to stay on and the electrical load is back on the main battery. If the secondary battery voltage is low when you turn the vehicle on, start/stop is automatically disabled because if it were to start/stop at a light when the engine shuts off so does the entire car. If does not automatically enable itself when the secondary battery is charged until you power off/on the vehicle.
 
#17 ·
When I picked up my Compass, the service ESS light came on right away. I figured maybe the battery was low since the car was sitting on the lot. After a week it didn't go out, so I called the dealer and scheduled an appointment for today. After sitting at the dealership for 6 hours today, the technician comes to get me and explains that he tested the battery and it was good, however the connection to the battery was bad. He fixed the connection and reset the code. We went on a quick test drive around the block and the ESS system worked perfectly. I left the dealer and drive to work. 2 1/2 hours later I leave to pick up my kids, and the engine doesn't turn off at the 1st light, After a few red lights with the motor constantly running, I change the display to show the ESS status. I have a message showing the system is not ready because the battery is charging. After the 45 minute drive in traffic to my boys' school, I figured the battery must be charged by now. No luck. Now it looks like tomorrow I will be back at the dealership to see what the problem is again. I plan on leaving the car there until they figure it out. A car less than 2 weeks old should not have to be in for repairs already. I love the Compass, but if this can't be fixed, I will have to look for a replacement.

Sent from my SM-G935W8 using Tapatalk
 
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#18 ·
Hi Key Reign,

We are sorry to hear that you are experiencing concerns with your battery and ESS. Please send us your VIN, mileage, and dealer so that we can create a case on your behalf to offer further assistance while in service.

Darlene
Jeep Social Care Specialist
 
#19 ·
I got the "A!" warning light in my first week, about 80 miles old.
The dealership told me they removed 2 fails (from ECU I think) and made something like a "proxy rebuild", I can't remember the "tech" name/expression.
They recharged the ESS battery too.
For now, about 250 miles, everything is running ok.
 
#22 · (Edited)
Did it become colder? It happened to me 2-3 times when the car sat overnight below 15F. If it has become colder, it might be that. Most of the time A! indicates charge of the aux battery is low, especially if it goes away after you turn the car off and on. Cold doesn't play well with batteries as they discharge faster, recover slower after a discharge and the engine needs more power to start.

I assume it only happens during remote start because with remote start there is something like a 2-3 sec delay between it's initiation and car starting(since you need to press 2X). And if you look inside the car during remote start, most of the cabin electronics, tail lights and the day time lights turn on with the first press. I think these put a load on the cold aux battery and finally the engine cranking with the second press pull out even more juice from the battery. At the end, once the car turns on and makes a "systems" diagnosis, it misdiagnose the battery as poorly charged (since cold also makes recovery after discharge slower), since it makes this check moments after the engine cranking. To me a poorly implemented diagnosis procedure than an actual issue.
 
#25 ·
My "Start/Stop" feature has completely stopped working. It doesn't bother me too much because this is also my first vehicle that has this feature, however just the fact that something is not working like it's supposed is a little annoying. My plan was just to mention it the next time I'm in the dealership for an oil change.

I have had the issue with the "A" light coming on, but like someone mentioned here, I just turned the car off and back on again and it went away (this is my tech fix for anything...8 out of 10 times it works?)
 
#60 · (Edited)
just curious if its still acting up?. ours stopped working weather we press the button or not, we don't have remote start or the higher-end advanced safety group. so far no DIC notice or any other warning lights on the instrument cluster. the car runs fine otherwise. from what i've read the ESS kinda runs on its own IBS module, so i'm guessing it shouldn't have a major effect on the rest of the system if it doesn't work? we actually like not having to press the "A" button every time we drive. thoughts?
 
#28 ·
I had to take mine in for this issue, after it triggered a check engine light when restarting at a red light. The dealership said it was a bad relay and replaced it. A few days later the malfunction light was right back on. It’s a constant issue that the dealership can not pinpoint to fix. I don’t see an issue with outside temp with mine. It happens when hot and/or cold, though I am in GA and it doesn’t get severely cold here.
 
#32 ·
My daughter just bought a 2019 Jeep Compass. The first thing I noticed was the Stop/Start feature which I personally found to be annoying. I am retired from Chrysler's Service division so I wanted some basic understanding of this new system. First if you want to disable the system there is an off/on switch but the problem there is you have to reset it every time you cycle the vehicle stop/start switch. OK how do you disable it permanently, some people disengage the hood ajar switch, but that may create other fault codes and problems. With this system there are 2 batteries in your car, the one we are all used to seeing, the large 12 volt battery that powers everything while the vehicle is running down the road. When you stop and the stop/start system kicks in and shuts the engine down all you electrical systems that are still on, radio, heater fan, dash lights, headlights etc are being powered by the small auxiliary battery. There is a jumper wire that connects the primary battery to the secondary battery. If that jumper wire is disconnected your computer will see that and will not allow the start/stop system to function. The down side to this procedure is that you will get the little warning light on the dash permanently displayed. There are some companies which are making a plug in that will disable the stop/start system but I'm not sure if any have been developed for the 2019 products as of yet. For me I think I will simply get in the habit of turning the system off with the dash button every time I start the car.
 
#33 ·
It's facinating how much people hate systems that actually save them money. I was annoyed when mine quit working. I got rather used to the silence of an engine off at a traffic light. Last fall, I was stuck in some serious traffic due to a fatality on the interstate. It legitimately saved me a lot of fuel not burned sitting and going nowhere. It works, saves money, and is not so gradually becoming standard fare across all cars. I say get used to it, and don't look for ways to cost yourself more at the pump.
 
#37 ·
It really depends on the type of traffic that people drive in. If someone (like me) spends a lot of time in constant stop-and-go traffic, the stop/start system can be infuriating. I tracked mine about three weeks ago, and the system restarted my car 18 times in a half mile stretch of road in heavy traffic. Most of the shutdowns were for less than two seconds in length, and none exceeded 10 seconds. In that kind of traffic, the constant delay as the engine restarts just feels like severe hesitation and can lead to a very "jerky and surge-y" drive (as my wife put it). FCA should have given us a choice to set a delay on the stop/start system. Sure, there's a button to press, but for many of us this is an everyday thing and it can be very frustrating to have to hit the button every single day.

I'm an EE and solved the problem myself last weekend. I just soldered up a timer circuit that fires a momentary relay (it's slightly more complicated than that, but you get the idea) to trigger the circuit. The rewiring was minimal, but my button now "presses itself" five seconds after the car starts. Itstill works when I want it to, but it defaults to Off rather than on.

And no, before anyone asks, I'm not interested in selling the mod to anyone. I may diagram out the circuit and post photos of it so the more electronically inclined can try it themselves though.
 
#35 ·
On the contrary. I've noticed a 1 - 2 mpg improvement in my fuel economy with the system on vs off. I fall into the category of roughly 60% city driving. Given that the system is designed with a heavy duty starter and an auxiliary battery, it does not "destroy" either component. The issues people have been having here have to do with software and sensor problems, not starters and batteries.
 
#40 ·
Wolfy said:
It's facinating how much people hate systems that actually save them money.
There is not the slightest chance for this system to save me so much as a fraction of a penny There is no way shutting down for one second and then firing right back up instantly is saving me any gas, and thats pretty much the only thing it does if I forget to shut the system off when I get in and go.

Wolfy said:
I got rather used to the silence of an engine off at a traffic light.
Got used to the silence, eh? Must have also got used to the obnoxious CHUTHUTHUTHUTHTUHTUHT of restart and the glares of other drivers around you who have to hear your starter crank loudly and watch your headlights and taillights pulsing with the turning of the motor...

I know what part you really like, you enjoy the time when the motor is off at a stop because if its ON at a stop you have to listen to all your quarters in the cup holder chattering around, continuously shaken by the worlds most roughest idling four cylinder =P

The IDEA of ESS is fine. This particular implementation is not. It is garbage. I hope someday you get to ride in a car that does it right, you will see the difference.

Wolfy said:
Last fall, I was stuck in some serious traffic due to a fatality on the interstate. It legitimately saved me a lot of fuel not burned sitting and going nowhere.
One rare example does not justify the shamelessly poor implementation of this particular system. I'm not concerned about a two mile crawl that happens maybe once or twice in the umpteen-hundred-thousand mile lifecycle of driving a given car.


Recursive said:
I'm an EE and solved the problem myself last weekend. I just soldered up a timer circuit that fires a momentary relay (it's slightly more complicated than that, but you get the idea) to trigger the circuit. The rewiring was minimal, but my button now "presses itself" five seconds after the car starts. Itstill works when I want it to, but it defaults to Off rather than on.
Ah man, you beat me to it! Thats what I was going to do before I decided to order up the stuff to try to go the programming route.

I still might go hardware route at some point, because my wife is very displeased with the lack of being able to set a couple of memory positions for the driver's power seat so we can easily switch back and forth.

So, want to expand your module out to also be a seat memory feature as well? =D If you are using something common like arduino I can probably help. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I am a software engineer who dabbles. Just a lack of free time keeps me from my many big ideas to un-fvckify this car...
 
#44 ·
There is not the slightest chance for this system to save me so much as a fraction of a penny There is no way shutting down for one second and then firing right back up instantly is saving me any gas, and thats pretty much the only thing it does if I forget to shut the system off when I get in and go.



Got used to the silence, eh? Must have also got used to the obnoxious CHUTHUTHUTHUTHTUHTUHT of restart and the glares of other drivers around you who have to hear your starter crank loudly and watch your headlights and taillights pulsing with the turning of the motor...

I know what part you really like, you enjoy the time when the motor is off at a stop because if its ON at a stop you have to listen to all your quarters in the cup holder chattering around, continuously shaken by the worlds most roughest idling four cylinder =P

The IDEA of ESS is fine. This particular implementation is not. It is garbage. I hope someday you get to ride in a car that does it right, you will see the difference.
The engine in mine is not rough, is quiet, the starter can only be heard if the window is down. Careful about ASSuming what I have and haven't driven. I've test driven a first gen Honda Insight, owned a first gen Toyota Prius, Ford Escape Hybrid, and a Chevrolet Volt. Like it or not, these systems are going to become ubiquitous in ICE powered cars, both hybrid and not. Cars do change and evolve as tech goes. I don't know how old you are, but there are still plenty of cars still on the road with carburetors, manual chokes, manual transmissions, manual windows, etc. 2 and 3 speed automatics have long given way to multi-speed transmissions - of which in our vehicles, don't use 2 of the 9 gears in normal everyday driving. CVT's are a common replacement to step gear automatics. Driving styles have long changed as cars have evolved. ESS systems are no different. It's just in this "I'm in a permanent hurry" day and age, people seem to be particularly bent when they have to either adapt to thinking and looking beyond their windshield wipers, or wait that 1 second for the ESS system to do it's thing since they didn't pay attention to what's going on around them. I'd love to see you work around the 1959 Mercedes 190D I owned back in the early 2000's. Diesels back then were not only low powered, but had little torque. The four speed on the tree manual would not be rushed through shifts, yet you had to shift - OFTEN - keep momentum up to keep up with traffic. Oh, and to start it. One had to pull on the aptly referred to "gorilla knob" A pull start mechanism that combined the glow plug circuit with the starter, and had a return spring that required the strength of a gorilla to hold partially out while you waited for a coil behind a cap called the salt shaker to glow red. Once it started to glow, it was a 30 second countdown to preheat the combustion pre-chambers sufficiently for it to start. After this, you had to pull even HARDER against that knob with your now tired arm to crank the starter. Congratulations, you now had a car with a 30 plus second 0 - 60 time running. Have fun keeping up in traffic. ;)
 
#41 ·
Nah, my goal was "cheap". As in zero dollars cheap. I have various unused Arduino's sitting in a drawer, but I'd rather save them for other projects. Instead, I had some old components left over from another project and just soldered it all together. Didn't even put them on a board. It's just a pair of 555 timer circuits wired in series to act as delays, with a relay at the end.

Timer 1 triggers high instantly and has a capacitor and resistor wired to the reset it to zero. Roughly 7 seconds after powering up, the capacitor resets the timer and shuts the circuit off.

Timer 2 triggers low instantly and has a capacitor and resistor wired to the trigger pin. Roughly 5 seconds after powering up, the capacitor triggers the timer and turns the circuit on.

The two triggers are wired in series. When the car powers up, both timers activate. The output voltage immediately gets through Timer 1, but is blocked because Timer 2 is still off. Five seconds after startup, Timer 2 is triggered, allowing the output voltage to flow through both timers. Seven seconds after startup, Timer 1 resets and cuts its output power. This effectively means that power is only delivered for a two-second period 5-7 seconds after the car is started. During that two-second period, the pulse activates a small Omron relay shorting two wires in the harness feeding the button. This simulates a two-second button press.

This is actually not a great design, but it was a 15-minute, bourbon-inspired solution that I whipped up using components I already had in a spare parts drawer. It took longer for the Plasti-Dip to dry than it did to design it and assemble everything (I plasti-dipped the whole assembly to protect it from liquids and shorting since it's inside the console under the cupholders). I've already come up with an even better (and simpler) design that can be assembled for less than $10, but I'm still debating whether it's worth pulling the whole thing apart again to redo it. If I do replace it, I'll record the process and stick it up on Youtube. If not, I may post the circuit diagrams up so that others can give it a shot.


Does the Compass have position sensors on the seat for memory? A memory position circuit would be fairly easy to put together IF the seat has accessible sensor signals to read the current seat position. I didn't think that memory seats were an option on the Compass, so I'd be surprised if the sensors were there.
 
#47 ·
Start/Stop mode is turned off by default

... I've already come up with an even better (and simpler) design that can be assembled for less than $10, but I'm still debating whether it's worth pulling the whole thing apart again to redo it. If I do replace it, I'll record the process and stick it up on Youtube. If not, I may post the circuit diagrams up so that others can give it a shot.
Hi!
I plan to implement such idea in my car. Would you give more information about your new revision (better and simpler design).
 
#42 ·
Recursive said:
it was a 15-minute, bourbon-inspired solution
Those are sometimes the best solutions!

The reason I never did mine was because I always blow things up, and start building out a huge wish list, so I jump from "toggle a relay on and off once at engine startup" to "toggle a relay and implement seat memory positions and do cool stuff with USB and control dashcams, etc etc, that turns into "well might as well use an rPi and have a little server and centralized storage for the dash cams..."

And pretty soon I get nothing done but dreaming ...

I doubt there are any sensors ready to use on the seat. I was thinking if I had an arduino type of thing I could run the seat with relays paralleled to the switches, and I would also be tapped into the limit switches (whichI don't know if they exist, but they must right?) And then I would handle the settings via timing. Have the user put the seat into the desired position with manual controls, then when they indicate via a long button press that they are done run the seat all the way back/down and time out the time it takes to hit the limits. Then a short press on the same button recalls the setting by running the seat forward/up/etc the recorded amount of time. Two buttons for two settings that both work the same way.

Some drawbacks would be having the seat go to full back/down before resetting to the desired position, kinda awkward but we could probably live with it. It also might not be super accurate, it could take longer to raise the seat the same distance due to motors working with or against gravity, etc. Would probably want to not be on the seat when its trying to set it to help with that.

If I could get some encoders on the seat motors could avoid the full reset and be more precise. Could get lucky and find that they are perhaps stepper motors rather than plain DC in which case might be able to tap on and note the steps. I have no idea what hardware they used in these seats.

There ARE settings in AlfaOBD in the body computer for "Driver Seat Track Position" and passenger seat same thing, but they may depend on hardware not present so, sometime to investigate down the road.
 
#43 ·
Those are sometimes the best solutions!
Lol. It's functional. "Best" is probably pushing it. The bourbon, on the other hand, was quite good :wink:

The reason I never did mine was because I always blow things up, and start building out a huge wish list, so I jump from "toggle a relay on and off once at engine startup" to "toggle a relay and implement seat memory positions and do cool stuff with USB and control dashcams, etc etc, that turns into "well might as well use an rPi and have a little server and centralized storage for the dash cams..." And pretty soon I get nothing done but dreaming ...
Perfect is the enemy of good. As engineers, it's easy to look at a collection of problems and want to design a single solution to solve them all. It's hard to design a solution that will actually do it. I've found that the best solution is to tackle the problems one at a time. If you can build on it to combine two solutions later, that's great, but KISS always works best.

I was thinking if I had an arduino type of thing I could run the seat with relays paralleled to the switches, and I would also be tapped into the limit switches (whichI don't know if they exist, but they must right?)
Maybe, maybe not. A lot of motor systems use load to determine when the limit has been reached. When the motor reaches its range limit, the current load increases. Detecting this increase can allow the circuit to find its range limits without the need for a physical switch. I have no idea which system Alfa used.

OTOH, it may not matter. When the seat finds its limit, the controller cuts power to the motor to prevent it from burning out. The power cutout itself could be sensed and used to determine when the range limit has been reached, even if the car lacks a directly accessible limit switch. The power cut itself is all the indication that you would need.

If I could get some encoders on the seat motors could avoid the full reset and be more precise
I haven't looked at it, but I'd presume that the motor uses some sort of worm drive to physically move the seat. A Hall effect sensor and a tiny magnet on the worm drive shaft would allow you to easily track the seats position after an initial calibration. For more resolution, you could also use a fixed magnet and Hall sensor, and attach a perforated metal disk to the worm drive between them. This would cause the sensor to "pulse" as the shaft rotated. Calculating seat position would simply be a matter of counting the pulses, and after that initial calibration it would remove the need for a "reset" entirely. Thinking about it a bit more, you could also accomplish the same thing with an IR emitter, an IR sensor, and some simple paint marks on the shaft. Detecting the shift in reflectivity would provide the same function as the magnets without requiring any permanent modifications to the worm drive itself (which may be good, if the shaft isn't in an easily accessible location or doesn't have enough clearance to allow a magnet or a disk to be attached).

Heck, if you wanted, you could connect that up to an rPI 0W and control your seat with your phone after that was put into place :devil:
 
#50 · (Edited)
Haven't seen much on the start/stop for awhile. Was curious if anyone knew if the original battery, (Group 47) and the aux battery, were replaced with a larger battery, ( group 48 ) which has more cranking amps, cold cranking amps, and reserve, and having all connections for both batteries on the one battery, if everything would work ok and hopefully override the stupid ESS setup, I disable it always and if I had been told about it and the no gas cap feature without a locking door, I'd have bought another vehicle. Also figure the switch is a normally open switch you push to disable the ESS, if the switch could be jumpered to stay closed. Just wanting opinions. I looked at wiring and it looks like the 2 batteries are in parallel so there might be another connection that would need to be made if the small aux battery was eliminated. Thanks
 
#52 ·
Again I would just disable the feature via Alfaobd. No wires no fuss. Just disables the feature on the body computer.
 
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#53 ·
Checked the pricing for the AlfaOBD software and the recommended OBD interface. AlfaOBD Windows software is $55 USD ($49 Euros) and a OBDLinkmx is $80.00. There is also a cheaper OBD interface called Vgate that is $30 USD. So it looks like $85 to $135 range for a setup.

My only concern is somehow screwing up and voiding my warranty. I wish I could have someone with the system just plug it all in and do it for me. Wonder if a dealer would do it? Likely more than the above costs if they would even do it.

Baja-D
 
#57 ·
You can get the trial version alfaobd and get an obdmx+ and test if it will connect.

If it will connect without issse and see all the on board info though the app then you don't need a security bypass module. This is all in the alfaobd thread.

I am still within my factory warranty and my Chrysler buyback extra warranty and I also bought lifetime warranty through Mopar. (With a $250 deductible)

Warranties are tricky but mostly it has to do if you break it then you are going to have to pay for it. Since the property is yours you are able to do what you wish with it. they have to trackle correlate whatever modification you do to the problem that the warranty is trying to cover. They might be able to see that the computer was accessed, but unless I had anything to do with the reason why you are coming to the dealership for the fix and claim on the warranty then they don't have a leg to stand on.

That is why you're able to mod your car and it does not void the warranty. It directly has to cause the brake that is in question. Places might scare tactic you or you might not want to deal with it but that is how it works.

It is your car, and it is software disable it is safer then doing what ever DIY things you guys are listing above.
 
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