[mkaresh]

In late 2005 I started conducting my own reliability research. I'm reporting absolute stats like "times in the shop" that will make the differences between cars much clearer. Relative ratings obscure too much--how large is the difference between "better than average" and "worse than average"? I’ll also be updating results four times a year, so there will be information on new models sooner.

I've been collecting data on the Dodge Caliber for some time (currently it's just a bit worse than average), and just started with the Patriot and Compass. I'm probably going to combine the two Jeeps because just about everything that might break is shared. But I'd like to still have a good sample of both, just in case they turn out to have unique issues.

So far, 75 Caliber owners and 21 Patriot owners are signed up to participate. Very few Compass owners, though, because I haven't had a forum lending a hand for this variant.

Participants report repairs the month after they occur on a one-page survey. When there are no repairs, they simply report an approximate odometer reading four times a year, at the end of each quarter.

To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.

Details: Vehicle reliability research

Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.

 

[ACX]

well well well.

I'll look into joining up.

 

[Lewis4246]

I joined; looks like a effort worth participating in.

 

[mkaresh]

Thanks, I appreciate it.

I'm hoping to have some preliminary results in November. I'll likely combine responses for the Compass and the Patriot, since they share just about everything but the sheetmetal. But if I see many problems unique to one or the other, I'll split them apart.

 

[farout]

Hey this is a very good idea! To have actual owners post their real world results is far better than Consumer Reports that has an eye for European, and Asian vehicles.
I have made a practice to buy American Made vehicles for the last 30 years. I look at where the vehicle is made ( Canada, Mexico, Japan, Korea, Europe) I consider Canada as the same as the USA if I can't get the vehicle I want made in the USA.
I have bought 13 new Chrysler made vehicles, and I have found that I have had very good service from the dealers and the company when something goes wrong.
Where as I bought 3 Ford vehicles, Airostar, Topaz. Taurus, and all three had excessive repairs that were premature, and very poor dealership repairs. Ford was not very helpful in resolving warranty problems.
The old saying that if your happy you will tell 3 people, if your unhappy you will twenty. That's something Ford is now learning from it's poor sales.
I welcome a place where we can really know what the comsumer has experienced :lol:

 

[Neely2005]

Hey this is a very good idea! To have actual owners post their real world results is far better than Consumer Reports that has an eye for European, and Asian vehicles.
I have made a practice to buy American Made vehicles for the last 30 years. I look at where the vehicle is made ( Canada, Mexico, Japan, Korea, Europe) I consider Canada as the same as the USA if I can't get the vehicle I want made in the USA.
I have bought 13 new Chrysler made vehicles, and I have found that I have had very good service from the dealers and the company when something goes wrong.
Where as I bought 3 Ford vehicles, Airostar, Topaz. Taurus, and all three had excessive repairs that were premature, and very poor dealership repairs. Ford was not very helpful in resolving warranty problems.
The old saying that if your happy you will tell 3 people, if your unhappy you will twenty. That's something Ford is now learning from it's poor sales.
I welcome a place where we can really know what the comsumer has experienced :lol:

Just for the record Consumer Reports does survey all it's subscribers for vehicle reliability. Also they must get at Least 100 responses before they will score a vehicle for reliability.

:!:

 

[farout]

I had a 2005 Jeep Liberty CRD (diesel) and CR reported it got 13 mpg! The very worst that was in the forum I regulary use was 18 mpg and most achieved better than 22 to 30 mpg. CR was asked how they got this mog and they refused to even retest. We later found out it was a test in 1 gear for some small time period.
CR has it's bias and they are not always right. Recently PBS has a report on how CR fudged a test and was being sued.
I found out that CR was sure wrong on oil filters!
I just take what I read with some caution. :roll:

 

[mkaresh]

Their city test probably includes a lot of stop and go and low speeds. Think rush hour in NYC. The numbers it yields are always quite low.

 

[farout]

No, the CR report said that was the avrage miles per gallon. Heck even a Dodge Durango gets that with the HEMI. CR just muffed it on that CRD report. :evil: Heck Motor Week on PBS rated the CRD at 21 mpg. These folks I do trust. 8)

 

[mkaresh]

It's the average from their city test loop, which includes a lot of stop and go and low speeds. I guarantee the HEMI doesn't get 13 in this test.

Actually, let me look it up...

The Liberty CRD actually got 11 in their city loop, 26 on their highway loop, and 18 overall. The overall number for the 3.7 gas engine is 15.

The numbers for the Ram with the HEMI are 8 city, 17 highway, and 11 overall.

I have many problems with CR's methods, but their fuel economy results look sound to me. Just got to understand that when they say city, they mean city, not suburbs.

 

[Neely2005]

No, the CR report said that was the avrage miles per gallon. Heck even a Dodge Durango gets that with the HEMI. CR just muffed it on that CRD report. :evil: Heck Motor Week on PBS rated the CRD at 21 mpg. These folks I do trust. 8)

You can criticize CR for some things but their Fuel Economy tests are not one of them. They are one of the few publications that do REAL World Driving Fuel Economy tests. They give you the City Numbers, The highway numbers & the Mixed Use Average Numbers.

They are also the only publication that I know of that buys all their own products and doesn't accept any advertising. They may not be perfect but they're more impartial than most publications & websites.

Here are the Fuel Economy Numbers for the Caliber & Compass from CR:

Compass Sport 4WD

City: 16 MPG (US Gallons)
Highway: 28 MPG
Mixed Use Average: 22 MPG

Caliber SXT (2.0 Liter Engine)
City: 17 MPG
Highway: 32 MPG
Mixed Use Average: 24 MPG

Caliber R/T AWD
City: 15 MPG
Highway: 30 MPG
Mixed Use Average: 22 MPG

:!:

 

[farout]

Consumer Reports reliability

CR has many publication on vehicles. Just go to any Barns and Nobles and look at the cvehicle section. CR has the used vehicle values, CR has the New Car buyers guide, and SUV guide. If you look at the Jeep Liberty section from 2002 to 2007 CR has repeated the same thing for every year. There are several errors in the technical data that is incorrect and CR never corrected their mistake.
CR in the oil filter tests WIX was poorly rated filter! That's just not correct! :twisted:
CR says the Caliber, Compass and the Patriot are all the same basicly. There are simular underpinings, but each has it's unique features that make it different.
Only the Jeep brands come standard with anit-lock brakes, and disc brakes. All Compass's come with 17" wheels and the Limited with 18". :lol: The Patriot comes with 16" unless it's a Limited. So there is a big difference, at least to me anyway.

 

[mkaresh]

I'm with them on the Patriot and Compass being very similar aside from sheetmetal. The Caliber is a more different, with a lower seating position, less interior room, and a body that is not as tall.

Every site and publication has quite a few errors in it, sadly even my own. It's hard to avoid when you've got thousands of data points, and all sources of data themselves contain errors.

 

[Neely2005]

Re: Consumer Reports reliability

CR has many publication on vehicles. Just go to any Barns and Nobles and look at the cvehicle section. CR has the used vehicle values, CR has the New Car buyers guide, and SUV guide. If you look at the Jeep Liberty section from 2002 to 2007 CR has repeated the same thing for every year. There are several errors in the technical data that is incorrect and CR never corrected their mistake.
CR in the oil filter tests WIX was poorly rated filter! That's just not correct! :twisted:
CR says the Caliber, Compass and the Patriot are all the same basicly. There are simular underpinings, but each has it's unique features that make it different.
Only the Jeep brands come standard with anit-lock brakes, and disc brakes. All Compass's come with 17" wheels and the Limited with 18". :lol: The Patriot comes with 16" unless it's a Limited. So there is a big difference, at least to me anyway.

Actually the Caliber R/T comes with 4 Disc Anti Lock Brakes... but the Caliber, Compass & Patriot are more similar than they are different.

 

[farout]

I guess that may seem that way until you look at the things that don't come with the Caliber. The extra money was well worth it from my view point. However, the Caliber RT has a lot more going for it, whenyou consider what the SXT has in it. The 2.4 engine is not in the other Caliber's. The Compass is not as good an MPG as the Caliber. I have yet to hear of any Compass with the 2. L engine, which Chrysler said would be out late in the model year. :roll:
I think all three models will turn out to be a good lasting vehicle. I like the Compass, but the front end has taken some time for me to like. The Back end looks good, but the front is a bit odd looking, to me. :roll:

 

[PlutoniumX]

Funny, I think the front end is the bit of styling I like the most.

 

[farout]

There is one thing for sure the Compass is not the BOX style of the Patroit. There are many Patroits sitting on Dealers lots. One dealer In Kansas City has 32 Patroits, while there are only 9 Compass's sitting there. I know of one dealer that has a Patroit sitting for three months.
I don't know why, maybe it's because they don't discount them yet.

 

[ACX]

ahahaha I see you're formally affiliated with truthaboutcars now... :lol:

The site that has the compass as one of the ugliest vehicles sold?

what was it their TWAT awards?

good thing they don't ban people for speaking their mind here (sort of like getting fired from a newspaper for writing a bad review)..

lol..

 

[Neely2005]

In late 2005 I started conducting my own reliability research. I'm reporting absolute stats like "times in the shop" that will make the differences between cars much clearer. Relative ratings obscure too much--how large is the difference between "better than average" and "worse than average"? I’ll also be updating results four times a year, so there will be information on new models sooner.

I've been collecting data on the Dodge Caliber for some time (currently it's just a bit worse than average), and just started with the Patriot and Compass. I'm probably going to combine the two Jeeps because just about everything that might break is shared. But I'd like to still have a good sample of both, just in case they turn out to have unique issues.

So far, 75 Caliber owners and 21 Patriot owners are signed up to participate. Very few Compass owners, though, because I haven't had a forum lending a hand for this variant.

Participants report repairs the month after they occur on a one-page survey. When there are no repairs, they simply report an approximate odometer reading four times a year, at the end of each quarter.

To encourage participation, panel members will receive full access to the results free of charge.

Details: Vehicle reliability research

Comments, questions, and suggestions welcome.

I'll join up next month, once I take delivery of my 2008 Jeep Compass Limited.

:!:

 

[ACX]

Hey David Karesh, all the owners here can thank the site you work for, for the nice words about the compass..

Class act!


this is what truthaboutcars.com, the site he whores at has to say about the compass..

2. Jeep Compass

“Props to DCX for trying to introduce an economical model for fans of the storied Jeep brand.. In this horror story, Dr. Frankenstein (played by the mustache-twirling Doktor Z) grafts round headlights and a seven-slot grill onto the face of a mediocre high-riding sedan (a.k.a. the Dodge Caliber). He throws the switch and an ugly, gangly, underpowered, mud-aversive half-breed staggers into the light, turning all who see it-- or heaven forbid buy it-- into grotesque, bobble-headed morons. The Compass stomps all over Jeep’s reputation as America’s purveyor of authentic off-road vehicles. It’s time to get your pitchfork.”


thanks for the kind words guys, don't pull any punches.