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I still have my doubts about how sensitive the ESC is. Having driven a FWD Patriot in snow for 10 years I learned early on that a wheel must have significant slippage before the ETC kicked in. I am presuming the ETC and ESC are working with the same data. It is measuring the difference in wheel speeds and it must take into account that someone may be turning sharply so it simply can't engage on every tight turn. So really, the ESC is only there in a situation one should avoid in the first place. Relying on ESC is like relying on airbags or seatbelts -- if you need them you got yourself into a situation you shouldn't have.
The nanny systems on the Compass and a few of the other newer vehicles are actually pretty good. They are sensitive to detect wheel slippage in a matter of a few degrees of tire rotation. The system also knows all of your inputs including how far the steering wheel is turned to try to determine where you are trying to go and keep you moving in that direction. It feels to be like some gyros are a play here as well as you can feel the system kick in when there has been no tire slippage at all. However yes it is still a mostly reactive system and a good driver may never see these systems in full action. In the case of the Compass the system stays pretty tight even when muted by partly turning it off. But given the driving skills of most drivers these day it is most likely a good thing in a higher CG SUV.

I have driven the Snake in our Compass many times both with the system partly and fully engaged. The only difference is the Compass feels lighter and more fun with the system muted and it loses that hard pull to the inside of the curves the torque feed back to the steering wheel is muted the system lets you have some drift before engaging the brakes on the inside track. However hit a curve faster than it likes the nanny will kick in and you feel it reigning you back in. With the system full on the Compass almost feels so stiff it at times feels like it could break in half going around a hair pin switchback. Seriously if it were not for the lack of binding it could be so stiff it felt like all 4 wheels were hard connected to each other without any means to allow for different wheel speeds. I have driven Subarus that were not this tight in sharp curves.

Truly though muting the ESC is pretty much the same as switching to a sport mode on the ESC in other vehicles it just moves the nanny to the back seat and out of your face!

As for seatbelts and airbags there are just too many variables that can happen where even the best of drivers can end up using them. We simply can't account for everything and given how stupid people are getting behind the wheel anything becomes possible at any moment. :)
 

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Modern safety devices are nice. But they are no substitute for prudence behind the wheel. That was the point of my post. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

I think that all these safety devices have convinced us that we're invincible behind the wheel. People seem to think AWD means even in a snowstorm we will cling to the road like velcro; crumple zones mean an impact can't come near us; airbags and seat belts mean we can't get hurt; no deer crossing signs mean there is no chance a deer could wander onto the road, and if one does the ensuing accident is the fault of the DOT for not putting up a warning sign; speed limit signs are only for old people or put there as opportunities for the police to increase the town's revenue. Thinking like this, its no wonder drivers travel at or beyond the capabilities of their vehicles and themselves.

Just for fun, drive somewhere at the speed limit and see how many cars you catch up with; compare with how many cars pass you. Just sayin'.

This story goes back to the 1970s a year or so after the 55MPH speed limits were mandated. I heard a state official being interviewed on a radio program. He said there hadn't been a single highway fatality in that state since the speed limit dropped where both drivers were sober, traveling at or below the speed limit, and all occupants were wearing their seat belts. Not one. I don't know if that statement is still true 40 years later, but I bet there haven't been many casualties under those circumstances, in that state or any other.

As for my Compass' quirks, I do not accept oil-consuming engines and grinding drive-trains as the "new normal." I'm not panicking, nor am I angry, but these problems give me doubts about how well the Compass was engineered and tested. Basically I like my Compass and I'm being patient with it for now. But I am concerned. :plain:

End of tirade.
 

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Come on guys, you can't possibly be so naive and have such blatant disregard for safety? Let me put it in Chris' favorite style:
Nothing unsafe about it or the system would not let you even mute it above a certain speed but they do factor in that the person has reasonable driving skills. I assure you though the system even muted is still very active.

FACT: Older vehicles with less or less-advanced safety technology are easily proven to be less safe than modern vehicles such as the Compass via crash tests and statistics.[/QUOTE]

Correct most of that has to do with increasing safty during a crash. But yes all the crazy systems do work and they work pretty well on most. I have little doubt they have helped new drivers and those I call passengers behind the wheel avoid accidents. But better more experienced drivers simply do not need these systems as much if at all. I infact think all this crap is a double edged sword. The more people rely on them the less likely they are to ever learn how to handle a situation where these systems are not working or not present. These driving skills are built up as you use them. For example it is one thing to read what to do in the event of a given skid condition and then to actually perform the necessary actions. We use to build these skills up as we drove usally bit by bit year after year to the point these things became instinct.

My son just recently started driving and a few week ago got his DL. You know what I have him driving and what he basically learned to drive on from the start. A 1994 Ford Ranger 4x4 manual transmission. None of the nanny stuff. First snow this coming winter we will out to a big empty parking lot and run though some winter driving stitutions so when he needs to use these skills on the road he will have them. Later if he gets something with all this electronic stuff he will still know how to actually drive should something happen that he needs to!


FACT: Just because you were lucky enough to not die or get injured in an older vehicle is anecdotal / not evidence / does not support the concept you are suggesting that your older vehicle is "as safe" to drive today as the Compass.
Face it luck becomes a factor no matter what your driving. But learning driving skills is a much greater factor than luck and is in fact evidence of how important learning these skills are.

As far as how safe my older vehicle is without ABS,ESC,TCC,and all this fancy crap well that is a factor of how good the driver is. Given the fact I have only been in a few minor fender benders and one nasty single vehicle accidents I say I have done very well. Only one fender bender was my fault and happened when I was a beginning driver and was getting gas. I didn't know I had stepped in oil and when I put my foot on the brake to shift to drive my foot slipped off the brake onto the gas as soon as the shift crossed reverse I almost got back under control and bumped the car right behind me. My more major accident was involving a deer that literally jumps out of the bushes over a ditch into the front corner locking up the passenger side front wheel. The greatest driver in the world with the most advanced driving systems in the world would still have been screwed!!!!!! All other accidents occured when I was not even moving. Parked or sitting at red lights or stop signs. Again nothing a driving aid would have prevented.

FACT: The modern computer controlled safety systems in the Compass can react so much faster than your organic human mind its not even funny, AND the system in the Compass has access to countermeasure options you do not, such as the option to brake one individual wheel for yaw correction.
True but you are talking still talking about a mostly reactive system. For the most part the system is in the business of trying to correct the vehicle. If you don't put the vehicle into trouble to start with it has little to do. But as good as the system is it still does not have ESP, it can't see the road ahead and see how steep or banked a curve is. It can't see that road conditions ahead have changed what the traffic is doing or if there is something right in front of it unless you have forward collision avoidance. These are all the things humans bring to the table if they know how to drive. And avoidance driving techniques are extremely reliable when properly mastered. No I can't brake a single wheel to tank steer the damn thing but I can turn the wheel and also apply proper brake or throttle to pull out of a skid and the end effect is the same.

And in muting the systems on the Compass it can and will still do all the stuff it does should the driver make a mistake and it senses the need to step in. To me even muted the system is still too invasive and wished it back off a bit more.


Utter nonsense! You cannot control or predict a deer bursting out onto the road in front of you, there is no element of preemptive control in many bad situations that happen on the roads every day. Say the deer jumps out, you instinctively swerve to avoid it but subsequently loose control of the vehicle's trajectory because you turned ESC off at the start of your drive, and you end up smashing into oncoming traffic and killing one or more occupants of the other vehicle because, sadly for them, they were driving an older car with less air bags and no crumple-zone engineering so despite doing nothing wrong they suffer the worst of the consequences of your extremely poor and selfish choices!
I have to ask have you muted your ESC and played around with your any at all Compass. And how did you ever survive driving without all this crap on a car or have you ever driven something without them? Could you swerve a vehicle without losing control of it without these systems? I can and have many many times!!!! You do know these systems can help regain control of a vehicle to a point but they still have their limits on what they can do right!

Again if FCA felt this system was imperative to not be muted they would have made it switch full on once you reached a given speed. But they know it was engineered to still be very active and able to help bring the Compass back on track if needed.

Seriously do find a nice quiet low traffic road and hit that ESC switch and learn how it feels and how the ESC is still working. It is not much different from using sport mode on other new systems.



I am personally extremely impressed by the ESC in the Compass, on icy roads or in hydroplaning situations it has done very well for me. There is no reason to give up an ounce of that protective measure on the whim that MAYBE some kind of wear can be avoided in some part of the drivetrain with ESC off. It is both irresponsible and illogical. I have a live-and-let-die attitude 99% of the time but my loved ones and myself don't have any choice about sharing the highways with other people such as yourselves, we have to go to work and grocery stores and all that good stuff so if you could pretty please not endanger us all over your mis-guided no-concrete-evidence unsupported-theory of driveline wear, that would be swell.
Yes it is an impressive system it works so well it still is incredibly effective IF YOU MUTE IT! But I have driven on icy roads in a 1974 Buick Riviera with a 455 putting out 505 ft pound to torque this as a teen without issue. Needless to say you learn how to drive with a beast like that in bad weather or you find a ditch fast!

Oh how do you ever feel safe walking out the door. Given the fact there are 18 wheelers loaded with tons and tons of weight that have none of this safety avoidance and ABS and ESC on them. Surely you will die instantly just looking in the rear veiw and seeing one behind you. Half the vehicles around you at any given time likely do not have all the junk on them. If your lucky only 2 or 3 don't have brakes that are working right. Think about that while your trying to sleep tonight! LOL
 

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When you go into autostick or turn ESC off you basically disable 2WD and force it into all-time AWD.
Just checking if I'm reading this right. Autostick forces the vehicle into 4wd? Why? What sense does that make? That means 9th gear will never get used! (Mine won't go into 9 unless I put it there). I just don't see why autostick and AWD need to be related. Wouldn't it be better to do it the other way? Autostick ought to force the vehicle into FWD for improved fuel economy.
Seriously, this paranoia over barely detectable humming sounds has got to stop. With all the clunks and bangs and thuds, clicks, humms, pops, snaps, and whirrs that go with driving I am astounded that anyone picks up on this tiny background sound at all.
As I already said I'm not paranoid about this, but I wouldn't call the humming sound "barely detectable." After the update it did move the sound to higher speeds where the hum gets more competition from road noise. If I had AT tires the sound would probably drown out the humming, but since when is the sound of AT tires "barely detectable"? Maybe you're not hearing what others are, i.e., only some Compasses make this humming noise -- in which case I'm back to worrying. :plain:
 

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Just checking if I'm reading this right. Autostick forces the vehicle into 4wd? Why? What sense does that make? That means 9th gear will never get used! (Mine won't go into 9 unless I put it there). I just don't see why autostick and AWD need to be related. Wouldn't it be better to do it the other way? Autostick ought to force the vehicle into FWD for improved fuel economy.
I'm not so sure going into auto stick is forcing AWD. To me the Jeep seems a bit lighter in it's response in tight curves. Instead I think going autostick is kicking over to something more like a sport mode. I think the reason the noise disappears in autostick is that it locks the front PTO so the drive shaft is live. Then it cuts or greatly reduces power transfer to the rear wheels through the rear PTU. This puts the system in a mode where you can have a bit of that sport feel but the computer can very quickly work the rear PTU in a split second if it senses it needs to help you maintain control. That is what I make out of it but Jeep really has not stepped up to tell us what the computer is doing and when so I'm just going by how the Compass feels to me.

As for 9th gear in auto mode well these things were geared for the european market and other places with higher or no speed limits. It will not kick into 9th till your north of 80 MPH and either down hill or level terrain. I have had great MPG results forcing 9th in autostick but I watch the instant MPG gauge and RPM then shift accordingly.



I also think this humming noise is louder in some Compass than others Ours got pretty bad and could be easily heard over the wildpeak AT tire hum with the radio turned up a bit. I still think that the center support bearing is playing some role here in transmitting a vibration into the body then the interior amplifies it. So different trims may change how the sound gets amplified as can adding passengers or stuff to the inside. I am still hearing this humming off and on at different speeds but not near as bad and is livable. But it seems the old dog has a new trick after putting a few miles on this update. If I flip the ESP switch off then right back on the noise will go away and stay gone for a while sometimes for days. Kind of freaky what these modern cars can do with all these electronic gizmos!
 

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I'm not so sure going into auto stick is forcing AWD. To me the Jeep seems a bit lighter in it's response in tight curves. Instead I think going autostick is kicking over to something more like a sport mode. I think the reason the noise disappears in autostick is that it locks the front PTO so the drive shaft is live. Then it cuts or greatly reduces power transfer to the rear wheels through the rear PTU. This puts the system in a mode where you can have a bit of that sport feel but the computer can very quickly work the rear PTU in a split second if it senses it needs to help you maintain control. That is what I make out of it but Jeep really has not stepped up to tell us what the computer is doing and when so I'm just going by how the Compass feels to me.

As for 9th gear in auto mode well these things were geared for the european market and other places with higher or no speed limits. It will not kick into 9th till your north of 80 MPH and either down hill or level terrain. I have had great MPG results forcing 9th in autostick but I watch the instant MPG gauge and RPM then shift accordingly.



I also think this humming noise is louder in some Compass than others Ours got pretty bad and could be easily heard over the wildpeak AT tire hum with the radio turned up a bit. I still think that the center support bearing is playing some role here in transmitting a vibration into the body then the interior amplifies it. So different trims may change how the sound gets amplified as can adding passengers or stuff to the inside. I am still hearing this humming off and on at different speeds but not near as bad and is livable. But it seems the old dog has a new trick after putting a few miles on this update. If I flip the ESP switch off then right back on the noise will go away and stay gone for a while sometimes for days. Kind of freaky what these modern cars can do with all these electronic gizmos!
Thanks for the informative post. I think I'll try your trick on Monday. I've got a long drive that day.
 

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Does the Fiat 500X AWD uses the same engine and transmission as the 2018 Compass 4WD

I was just noticing the similarities and differences between my 2016 Fiat 500X Trekking AWD and my 2018 Jeep Compass Limited 4WD.

First, the jerkiness of the 9 speed ZF that was found in the Fiat is not found in the Jeep.

Second, now I have this roaring sound from the transmission from 35-45 that is a different kind of nuisance.

I've tried turning off the ESC and the same noise is still there. The only time I was able to get rid of this humming/roaring noise is by turning on 4WD lock.

I've tried this 10 different times just to make sure there is consistency.

Third, the 2.4 L inline 4 are obviously identical engines found in both vehicle. They are just as thrashy and raucous but the Jeep has better insulation so it's not as annoying.

Lastly, why does the 9 speed ZF in the Fiat not exhibit the same roaring sound? Is there something extra or something removed from this transmission that makes it smoother but louder? Is it just a programming issue or something else more problematic?

More importantly, will I get a deer in the headlight look from the Jeep mechanic when I try to explain this issue?
 

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I was just noticing the similarities and differences between my 2016 Fiat 500X Trekking AWD and my 2018 Jeep Compass Limited 4WD.

First, the jerkiness of the 9 speed ZF that was found in the Fiat is not found in the Jeep.

Second, now I have this roaring sound from the transmission from 35-45 that is a different kind of nuisance.

I've tried turning off the ESC and the same noise is still there. The only time I was able to get rid of this humming/roaring noise is by turning on 4WD lock.

I've tried this 10 different times just to make sure there is consistency.

Third, the 2.4 L inline 4 are obviously identical engines found in both vehicle. They are just as thrashy and raucous but the Jeep has better insulation so it's not as annoying.

Lastly, why does the 9 speed ZF in the Fiat not exhibit the same roaring sound? Is there something extra or something removed from this transmission that makes it smoother but louder? Is it just a programming issue or something else more problematic?

More importantly, will I get a deer in the headlight look from the Jeep mechanic when I try to explain this issue?

I assume different PTU.
 

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I was just noticing the similarities and differences between my 2016 Fiat 500X Trekking AWD and my 2018 Jeep Compass Limited 4WD.

First, the jerkiness of the 9 speed ZF that was found in the Fiat is not found in the Jeep.

Second, now I have this roaring sound from the transmission from 35-45 that is a different kind of nuisance.

I've tried turning off the ESC and the same noise is still there. The only time I was able to get rid of this humming/roaring noise is by turning on 4WD lock.

I've tried this 10 different times just to make sure there is consistency.

Third, the 2.4 L inline 4 are obviously identical engines found in both vehicle. They are just as thrashy and raucous but the Jeep has better insulation so it's not as annoying.

Lastly, why does the 9 speed ZF in the Fiat not exhibit the same roaring sound? Is there something extra or something removed from this transmission that makes it smoother but louder? Is it just a programming issue or something else more problematic?

More importantly, will I get a deer in the headlight look from the Jeep mechanic when I try to explain this issue?

Try bumping the shifter into autostick and see if the noise goes away but it does sound like you might have a different issue than what the TSB addresses. Mine would stop humming/roaring when I pushed the ESC button,bumped the shifter into auto stick or hit 4wd lock. Directly after the TSB ours was much better just an every so often noise that was not as loud. It is a bit more often now but not as loud so a big improvement. Wish they would do another update and we could be totally rid of it.

While the system used in Fiat and Jeep Compass are pretty much the same they are tuned for each vehicle differently based on how each was intended to be used my guess is this is part of where the noise is generated. My biggest guess still is some sort of harmonic being made by the rear driveshaft when it is unloaded and free spinning being transmitted into the cabin by the drive shaft support bearing. Just a guess though. I would love to put one of these things up on a lift with rollers and check out things in 30-40 MPH range when noise is present.
 

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Scrolling through the active topics list and see this one (again) thinking "That one is still going on, eh?"

:rotfl:

I personally don't mind. Yeah, you can hear it, but it's never annoying or excessively loud. Just getting the engine's RPM over 3k causes more noise
 

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Scrolling through the active topics list and see this one (again) thinking "That one is still going on, eh?"
i like that meme, but I don't understand the first part. My engine has always been responsive, and my transmission is only as slow as my right hand. =)

I do think it's funny that this is still called an "issue" obviously if the fix didn't "fix" anything, and just changed the mph that the noise happens this is hopefully nothing but listening aesthetics.

Frankly, since I've installed the roof-rack I have competing loud obnoxious noises, and I just turn up the radio.
 

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I mainly have issues with transmission being rough as I transition from one vastly different driving style to the next. The computer seems to "tune things" slowly to match what you are doing but I am not and cannot be consistent with my driving. When its dry and the Jeep is unloaded I drive very spiritedly. When I have passengers I try to drive in a less neck-snapping manor. When I have a light trailer I drive more conservatively, and when it snows 3 inches like it did this weekend I drive more conservatively yet.

The poor computer can't keep up with all this hoping from one driving style to the other, it seems. One day I drive it very hard and all the shifts are smooth and the engine revs quickly, the next day with the snow I am driving like a grandma but every shift is harsh. Once this dries up I will want to drive hard again and the shifts will probably be slow and sloppy, and the throttle response reigned in... oh well. Still did decent in the first major snowfall here. Stock tires still suck but I'm still able to drive around easy enough.
 

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As for my Compass' quirks, I do not accept oil-consuming engines and grinding drive-trains as the "new normal." I'm not panicking, nor am I angry, but these problems give me doubts about how well the Compass was engineered and tested. Basically I like my Compass and I'm being patient with it for now. But I am concerned. :plain
An update. I've complained on several threads about the oil consumption in the new Compasses. While my statements have been measured, I admit I've not been happy about it. I'm now at 19,000 miles (yes I drive a lot) and I'm guessing I've added maybe 8 quarts in that time, and frankly I was down a quart before my oil changes so that 8 is maybe a conservative figure.

I'm happy to report that in the 1000 miles since my last oil change, I've not use much (any?) oil. This is a vast improvement. Maybe we just have a phenomenal break-in period for these engines?

Oh, yeah, the update seemed to move the grinding noise to a higher speed (45+), and at those speeds my snow tires pretty well cover the sound. Uh, well except for a few BANGS when I shift from autostick to regular mode. Not always, just a couple times. Does make we worry a little, however. I use autostick quite a bit when descending hills -- its either that or smoke the brakes.
 

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I'm going to the dealership tomorrow

Wish me luck! I hope they will be able to update and correct the 4x4 system. I hope they could fix the issue of the climate control shutting off for no reason too. Maybe they can fix the rattling that's coming from the passenger side. Perhaps an oil change if there's time :wallbash:
 

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They kept my car over the weekend for programming

It seems they didn't have any service tech that could perform this update or figure out the automatic climate control so they kept my car over the weekend. I've been driving a loaner Cherokee now for 4 days. I'll probably put a 1000 miles on it before I get my car back.
 
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