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Discussion Starter #1
Hi guys,

I'm strongly considering the new Toyo Open Country AT3 tires.

Currently running Yoko Geo G015 in 225/65/R17 and they've been great.

Tbh I've never got the tires rebalanced or rotated and 45,000 miles later they're starting to wear thin.

Anyways, I want to go with either 245/65/R17 or 225/65/R17. Obviously, with the larger set I'll either need a set of spacers or a lift kit.

After reading some reviews on this forum there are some people that say that the Daystar and Teraflex 1.5" lift kits will damage the CV joints over time. Some say it doesn't actually add ground clearance and only adds wheel clearance. Is it the same case with the ATP 2.0?

What benefits will I get from upgrading to a larger tire? I'm also not understanding the Toyo manufacturer warranty:
"65,000 mile limited manufacturer tread life warranty for P/Euro-metric sizes, and 50,000 mile limited manufacturer tread life warranty for LT-metric and flotation sizes "

So is the 65K warranty for the smaller tire? Do the 225s fall in this category? Do the 245s fall in the 50K warranty?

Any opinions would be great!
 

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First off I do not have a lift in my trailhawk compass. I do have a number of years experience in lifts and geometry with traditional jeep in particular JK models. Which are not even similar to a compass. Okay got that out of the way.
First off the lift is not going to give you more ground clearance. It will give you more room for tire and suspension movement or articulation. The taller tires will give you more ground clearance. So you may gain 1" or so with the sizes you are referring to.
As for cv joints and other suspension components, you will see more wear. Anytime you change geometry of the suspension from the stock configuration you will see more wear unless you are replacing with parts designed to work within that new geometry. Will it break or wear out in very sort time? Probably not when your talking a 1.5 to 2.0 inch lift. But even if you install the lift and have an alignment done. In the jeep world I live in we say your going to reduce the life of your factory part by half. (every case is different just depends on how hard you drive)
You need to look at tire weight also. The compass does not have a lot of horsepower or torque, the rock mode in the trailhawk helps but you need to be able to move those tires and the heavier they are the harder they are to move. Which adds stress on your vehicle and running gear. IMO I would not go any bigger than 235 but if it were me I would stay with 225. As for wheel spacers I have 3/4" spacer on my trailhawk they have been on now for over 75,000 miles.
I have had no issues. I have 90,000 on my trailhawk now. I put them on to give me a little wider stance for stability and it looks a little better.
As for the warranty on the tires. The LT are a light truck tire with a stiff sidewall. I personally would not choose those unless you need the stiff side wall so you can air down the tires for some serious off road. Because they are light truck tire I am sure that is the reason for less mileage on the warranty.
Hope this helps and they are just my opinion from my own experiences.
 

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I (mostly) agree with WisHawk, and I've written about this at length on other very similar posts so I'll try to keep it brief here and maybe you can use the search a little for more reading.

This is a car platform and it isn't intended to be "lifted" any more-so than a subaru is. Do people still do it? Sure, but people are also stupid.

You are looking for information on "gains", there really are no gains to be had other than making an already poser-jeep into a more convincing-looking poser jeep. What you are weighing is performance and longevity losses vs an increase in the looks department.

Lift will make the handling worse and decrease the life of the CV joints (all lifts). The higher the lift the worse the effect on the CV joints, but there is some variation between lifts that do or don't drop the rear diff to try to match the spacing on the struts, so you can find some better ones for the rear but the front is what it is since its an all-in-one transaxle assembly that stays put.

Spacers will decrease the life of the wheel bearings, the deeper they are the worse the effect (but they will still probably make it to 125-150k miles most likely, rough guess). Bigger heavier tires will decrease fuel economy, braking performance, acceleration performance, etc and increase the stress on the bearings further.

Gains? It will look really good in the mall parking lot. The small engine, poor transmission, and weak 4x4 system will still be the bottlenecks. It already has enough ground clearance to reach the limits of the 4x4 system, so getting it higher off the ground won't really open any new doors for you, you will still run out of power/gearing/4x4 capability before clearance is a real issue.

Can you technically clear more stuff with a lift and taller tires? Sure. Technically. That is an excellent talking point between buddies who like to sit on the couch and talk about what their cars can hypothetically do. But unless you can post a picture right now of your car buried in mud or show us some heavy scrapes on your skid plates from rocks that were an inch too tall then you probably aren't the type to make any noteworthy use of an extra couple of inches..

If you want to do it for the looks go right ahead, people never keep a car long enough to worry about longevity of CV axles or wheel bearings anyways. But if you are looking for an actual off-road capability justification, there really is none.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thank you very much for the responses guys. This was exactly what I was looking for. I definitely don't want to do it for just the looks but if there were actual gains to be had then I'd be willing to shell out the extra cash. I'm gonna stick with the 225s and skip the lift.

If you had to choose between the Falken Wildpeak AT Trail 235/60/17 vs the Toyo Open Country AT3s 225/65/17 which would be the better pick?

If I understand correctly the Falkens would be the wider tire which makes more surface area contact but the Toyo has a more aggressive tread pattern. Is it just based on looks or is there a clear winner here?
 

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Wait a minute, that doesn't seem correct.

Perhaps some people who installed lift kits could actually go out and measure the distance from their skid plates to the ground, because I'm thinking that any lift kit would increase ground clearance.

These are independent suspension cars. When you lift the body, you pull everything but the wheels UP. This isn't like a wrangler where a body lift would still have both axles the same distance to the ground.
 

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Well its a big of an apple and an orange if you aren't comparing the same sizes but I know they may not make them in both sizes.

Accurate specs are difficult to find for both tires, I've found conflicting data but it appears that potentially the toyos have more tread depth and less weight. That sounds good to me but I would want to confirm that first because a lot of places seem to confuse metric tread depth measurement with imperial, some will just put a number and its not clear if the number is in mm or /32 of an inch...

Tread depth is very important in my mind, I want all I can get, but I won't accept 6-10 extra pounds of weight per wheel over minute tread depth differences (if that makes sense).

Wider usually better for on-road handling but not sure that matters as much with A/T tires. The narrower ones will give you less clearance problems and cut through snow and ice better.

225 came stock on mine and handling was great. Then I switched to some 215 width and it feels like its a titch less stable on the highway but it might be all in my head. Two very different tires too which makes it hard to compare.

Anyways if tread depth is about the same I'd probably go for whichever is the lighter weight tire for performance reasons but unless its more than 6ish pounds difference its splitting hairs probably.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Wait a minute, that doesn't seem correct.

Perhaps some people who installed lift kits could actually go out and measure the distance from their skid plates to the ground, because I'm thinking that any lift kit would increase ground clearance.

These are independent suspension cars. When you lift the body, you pull everything but the wheels UP. This isn't like a wrangler where a body lift would still have both axles the same distance to the ground.
Thanks man! But it sounds like in either case it changes the angle for the CV joints which makes them wear out faster with no added benefit other than aesthetics.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well its a big of an apple and an orange if you aren't comparing the same sizes but I know they may not make them in both sizes.

Accurate specs are difficult to find for both tires, I've found conflicting data but it appears that potentially the toyos have more tread depth and less weight. That sounds good to me but I would want to confirm that first because a lot of places seem to confuse metric tread depth measurement with imperial, some will just put a number and its not clear if the number is in mm or /32 of an inch...

Tread depth is very important in my mind, I want all I can get, but I won't accept 6-10 extra pounds of weight per wheel over minute tread depth differences (if that makes sense).

Wider usually better for on-road handling but not sure that matters as much with A/T tires. The narrower ones will give you less clearance problems and cut through snow and ice better.

225 came stock on mine and handling was great. Then I switched to some 215 width and it feels like its a titch less stable on the highway but it might be all in my head. Two very different tires too which makes it hard to compare.

Anyways if tread depth is about the same I'd probably go for whichever is the lighter weight tire for performance reasons but unless its more than 6ish pounds difference its splitting hairs probably.
Toyos in 225s it is! Thanks man!
 

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It DOES have added benefit of added ground clearance. This is not just an aesthetic package.

I'm getting a bid to put the 4" ATP kit on my compass right now. If you can wait, and my shop is not too backlogged, I'll do a detailed writeup with pics soon. I'll measure before and after on my trailhawk. I'm hoping to try and keep up with my wife's wrangler, and hopefully not get too much flak from the off-roading clubs.

I think the CV joints will have a worse angle than stock for sure, but I'll probably sell or trade in before they wear out anyway.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thanks man I appreciate that! I ended up buying a set of 225 Toyos.

To me it seems counter intuitive to pay twice the price but still have to deal with a consequence that's detrimental to your vehicle.

By twice the price I mean that a set of Toyo 225s cost me about $700 with install. If I wanted a set 245s then it's $30 more per tire AND a $480 kit plus install fees. The shops I spoke to charge $100/hr and estimate it to be a 3 hour job.

In the end I really like the look. Like I really dig it. I just can't justify the additional cost and wear to the vehicle 😭
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
For anyone wondering the rooftop tent is the Yakima Skyrise first gen.

Took these tires out to Walker Ridge Rd in Mendocino and these performed wonderfully. Front tires were at 38 psi but the rear driver tire was at 47 and the rear passenger tire was at 40... I didn't notice this until I was on the road.

In terms of road noise I didn't notice any difference from my Yoko Geolandar G015s.

IMG_20200725_124159.jpg IMG_20200725_210646__01.jpg
 

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The new tires look good, the whole package looks good (y)

I am curious to see what stumpy's ride looks like after that 4 inch lift, that is a pretty crazy lift for a little ole Compass and in my opinion its going to need large tires (like 30+ inch) to fill out that look and then there goes the (already non-existent) highway performance.

With covid its been a while since I've driven my Compass any long distance but I did a 3 hour drive on Friday where the first half was driving INTO the wind, and it was a terrible experience of that junk 9 speed hunting for gears and making dramatic shifts, then 1.5 hours coming home with the wind at my back it ran along in 8th gear no problems up hills and everything. Got 24 MPG against the wind and 29 MPG with the wind.

What this reminds me is that this car has barely, BARELY enough power on the highway. The engineers shaved this one so close that it can only properly run its highway overdrive gear with a TAILWIND. If you screw up any of that delicate balance by adding 10 pound heavier, oversized tires with large diameter that further wrecks your effective final drive ratio, then you legitimately have made the car no longer highway capable. The only way you will be able to road trip is putting it into manual auto-stick mode and sticking to 5th, maaaaaybe 6th gear with a tailwind. The engine will be singing 3500 RPM non stop for hundreds of miles on end as the only way to make interstate speeds.

Not the end of the world, the little motor is tough and I can attest that it will happily run 3600 RPM for hours on end without complaint, but, basic math tells us that a motor spinning double the RPM of a V6 is going to wear out its internals faster. Thats why I change oil every 4k miles on the dot and use only the best filters and penzoil full synthetic, this little motor gets WORKED because the car is heavy and the transmission programming and gearing is piss-poor for highway travel.

We want an adventure car that can take on things like Moab but the thing is you also have to get to Moab, the highway road-trip ability of the car is important and even with stock tires mine just doesn't seem to have it. If I turn in this lease in a couple months it will be for this reason alone, its simply not a properly highway-capable cruiser.

Don't even get me started about driving this miserably geared thing in the mountains...
 

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Looks great OP!

I went with the falken wildpeaks and not disappointed. They do great for my light offroading as I don't have a trailhawk. Also got the falkens because they had a warranty on them and discount tire has always been great about keeping me stright on the warranties.
 
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Discussion Starter #17
Looks awesome! How do you like the tires so far? Looking at buying that exact tire. Any major power or mpg drop? I actually live just north of Mendocino in Humboldt! Btw, love the roof rack set up. How do the rails handle that tent?
I really like these tires so far. They seem pretty beefy. One thing I need to start doing is deflating my tires before I get on the trail. Currently running them at about 35 psi so maybe deflate to 25 psi?

In terms of MPG I haven't reset my gauge yet. I'll do it this week and let you know.

The roof bars are Thule Aeroblades 47" and they can handle 165 lbs. I haven't noticed any issues with them.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Looks great OP!

I went with the falken wildpeaks and not disappointed. They do great for my light offroading as I don't have a trailhawk. Also got the falkens because they had a warranty on them and discount tire has always been great about keeping me stright on the warranties.
Yeah I'd been told by a couple shops that Toyo doesn't offer a warranty on these tires, but when I checked the warranty section of different online tire shops it said there was one.

The new tires look good, the whole package looks good (y)

I am curious to see what stumpy's ride looks like after that 4 inch lift, that is a pretty crazy lift for a little ole Compass and in my opinion its going to need large tires (like 30+ inch) to fill out that look and then there goes the (already non-existent) highway performance.

With covid its been a while since I've driven my Compass any long distance but I did a 3 hour drive on Friday where the first half was driving INTO the wind, and it was a terrible experience of that junk 9 speed hunting for gears and making dramatic shifts, then 1.5 hours coming home with the wind at my back it ran along in 8th gear no problems up hills and everything. Got 24 MPG against the wind and 29 MPG with the wind.

What this reminds me is that this car has barely, BARELY enough power on the highway. The engineers shaved this one so close that it can only properly run its highway overdrive gear with a TAILWIND. If you screw up any of that delicate balance by adding 10 pound heavier, oversized tires with large diameter that further wrecks your effective final drive ratio, then you legitimately have made the car no longer highway capable. The only way you will be able to road trip is putting it into manual auto-stick mode and sticking to 5th, maaaaaybe 6th gear with a tailwind. The engine will be singing 3500 RPM non stop for hundreds of miles on end as the only way to make interstate speeds.

Not the end of the world, the little motor is tough and I can attest that it will happily run 3600 RPM for hours on end without complaint, but, basic math tells us that a motor spinning double the RPM of a V6 is going to wear out its internals faster. Thats why I change oil every 4k miles on the dot and use only the best filters and penzoil full synthetic, this little motor gets WORKED because the car is heavy and the transmission programming and gearing is piss-poor for highway travel.

We want an adventure car that can take on things like Moab but the thing is you also have to get to Moab, the highway road-trip ability of the car is important and even with stock tires mine just doesn't seem to have it. If I turn in this lease in a couple months it will be for this reason alone, its simply not a properly highway-capable cruiser.

Don't even get me started about driving this miserably geared thing in the mountains...
I've personally been quite satisfied with the highway performance of this car. For times where I needed a little more power I used the manu-matic shifter to accelerate and it's been very adequate for my uses.

There are a few times where I wish I went with the 3.2L Cherokee though 😅
 

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The Trailhawks have a lower final drive that probably helps, my Limited has the tallest final drive you can get (other than 2WD) and they don't seem to have properly compensated for it with the shift programming.

I also travel very, very, very swiftly in mine. I'm usually the fastest moving person on the interstate. Up to 65 MPH is mostly fine its when you get to the 75-85+ MPH that these problems are at their worst because of so much wind resistance at those speeds, but there are places with 80 MPH speed limits and with modern safety tech roadway average speed is only going up. A modern car needs to be able to travel 80ish MPH without a lot of drama and constant down shifting and this is where I have my issues. I run on a contentious 75 MPH road every day, you have to either hustle or "get out' the way", as Ludacris says.

Mine is way too eager to get into 8th gear, then it finds it can't hold 8th so it pops out, and back in, and out, and in, and out, and double downshifts to 6th on minor hills... drives me nuts. But like I said if you turn around and have a tailwind you can sail along in 8th gear no problem sometimes. The mileage doesn't really seem to be any better in 8th, just the noise/NVH is better in 8th.

If the AlfaOBD developer ever fixes the app so I can do a proxi alignment again I will try to set the transmission to use Cherokee ERS (Electronic Range Selection) instead of Auto-stick and that would just about cure my problems. I could set 6th or 7th to be the top gear allowed for a given drive into a headwind and I'd be good to go, maybe. Or maybe I need to jump up to that V6 Cherokee but it has so much extra weight I don't know if it will be enough. 3.2 isn't very big.

I should just go straight to the 5.7 liter V8 version of the Grand Cherokee Trailhawk. That should provide sufficient highway motivation to the wheels for my liking 😁
 

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Lookin good. I bought my Compass to take off road, and its great to see others doing it well. My car surgery is scheduled. It will be about three weeks, and I'll start a thread on it when it gets back.
 
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