My Jeep Compass Forum banner
21 - 40 of 160 Posts
If I were you I think I would do a compression test at this point. If you are not up for that, maybe there is a local independent mechanic who can do it for you for a small cost. This would be the way to prove that blow-by is happening, that something is totally wrong with your piston rings. Make sure the test is fully documented so it can be used as hard evidence with the arbitrator/FCA.
 
Mine too

Hey, I know the last post was a month ago, but I'm having oil issue too and I'm wondering what your results were. First time they ran an oil consumption test, found nothing, and blamed it on not being at the correct levels when I purchased it. (mine was straight off the truck with the protective tape still on it.) I got an oil pressure alert this morning when I turned. Pulled over and could not see oil on the dipstick. My compass has less than 10k miles on it, so if it isn't fixed this time around I will probably invoke the lemon law and walk away.
 
Discussion starter · #23 ·
Hey, I know the last post was a month ago, but I'm having oil issue too and I'm wondering what your results were. First time they ran an oil consumption test, found nothing, and blamed it on not being at the correct levels when I purchased it. (mine was straight off the truck with the protective tape still on it.) I got an oil pressure alert this morning when I turned. Pulled over and could not see oil on the dipstick. My compass has less than 10k miles on it, so if it isn't fixed this time around I will probably invoke the lemon law and walk away.
Hello! First off, let me tell you that I'm sorry to hear that your Jeep is burning oil. You will have quite an up hill battle with the car. Mine continues to burn oil at a slower pace now than it did when it was first determined. What I have found is that the dealership will make you go thru these oil consumption tests and come in every 400-800 miles for a dipstick test. Make sure you personally check your oil before going to the dealer for documentation as i have found they add oil to the engine after checking which pretty much null and voids the testing they do. Make sure they DO NOT PUT OIL IN THE CAR.

it's done for that reason so they can skirt you out of the chance to leverage the warranty and continue to waste your time. I've caught my dealer doing this twice now. FCA will do everything in there power to stall your warranty claim and not open the engine up. They will also deny your arbitration and lemon claim unless you meet the conditions. I'm two service days out before I can claim lemon (30 days in a year) but it will be filed before long.

They (FCA) will also tell you that it's perfectly normal for it to turn all the oil as they have explained to me during my arbitration hearing. That is a load of crap.
 
I hate to see you guys having this issue with your Compass! All I can say as they (FCA) need to ditch this claim that this rate of oil loss is normal. Our Compass is somewhere between 6k and 7k miles now. Within a few days of bringing our Jeep home I checked the oil. It was just under the top fill line. I have been watching it closely ever since the first post about excessive oil use was made. As of yesterday my oil level is still above the halfway point. I would consider this to be normal oil use for an engine that is breaking in. So the amount of oil being used by your Jeeps is certainly not the norm. Heck you guys are so close the being diesels without the benefits of owning a diesel it is not funny.

I wonder how much quicker FCA might move if you put one of those bumper stickers on that reads "It is a flex fuel it burns both oil and gas" then took a picture of it and sent it to them. lol

Best of luck to you!
 
Discussion starter · #25 ·
I wonder how much quicker FCA might move if you put one of those bumper stickers on that reads "It is a flex fuel it burns both oil and gas" then took a picture of it and sent it to them. lol

Best of luck to you!
I harken this TigerShark motor to be similar to a two stroke motor. I just checked my wife's oil today, its starting to get low again. I'm just wondering what excuse they will give me when it completely burns all the oil again.
 
Thanks for keeping us updated and sharing insight . like others I’ve been keeping track of oil consumption. Before leaving the dealership with a cold engine and only 9 miles on the OD, the oil level was full, at ~800 miles it read ¾” on the dipstick and currently reads ½” at 1,500 miles. this is 95% city driving with short 15 minute commutes and two 300 mile road trips (after a 600 mile break-in). when I’m driving, the mpg's are in the mid 19’s city and consistently 31+ hwy. at this point I’m not too concerned as long as the mpg’s stay the same. The oil will be changed at 2,500 or when it hits the “low” mark, which ever comes first. my questions are you seeing any loss of mpg’s? also, do you have access to the oil consumption procedure? ( DealerCONNECT> TechCONNECT under: Service Info> 09 - Engine> Diagnosis and Testing - Oil Consumption Test And Diagnosis) … to put things in perspective, Subaru, Audi, BMW, GM, Toyota all have the same issues will oil consumption
 
Discussion starter · #27 ·
The oil will be changed at 2,500 or when it hits the “low” mark, which ever comes first. my questions are you seeing any loss of mpg’s?
Right now my MPG is horrible, We do 70% City / 30% Highway and it's getting 18-19MPG all day...

Do you have access to the oil consumption procedure? ( DealerCONNECT> TechCONNECT under: Service Info> 09 - Engine> Diagnosis and Testing - Oil Consumption Test And Diagnosis) … to put things in perspective, Subaru, Audi, BMW, GM, Toyota all have the same issues will oil consumption
Don't know the procedure, I've never owned a car that consumes oil like this one does.
 
My understanding is that as a part of the strive for higher and higher fuel economy the tightness of piston rings has been relaxed in many recent engines, reducing internal friction is a general benefit and part of how this modern motor can be more powerful and economical than larger engines of yesteryear but it comes at a cost and in this case the cost is a small amount of expected oil consumption and increased contamination of the engine oil during normal usage.

Yes I'm afraid it really is expected that these types of engines will "use" some oil between oil changes. For us old-timers this is a hard concept to grasp, that anyone would purposefully engineer a motor "loose enough" to burn a bit of oil but you can google this yourself, I'm not making it up. I know I sound like I'm guzzling the service department bs-koolaid again but seriously, check into it, this is a real thing.

Some modern mass-produced economy-minded engines are designed and expected to consume a tiny bit of oil between changes. This is part of why we have such a small engine with such a massive oil capacity. 5.5 quarts is a LOT of oil for a small four cylinder but the extra capacity is, in part, because its expected that the oil level is going to work its way slowly down the hash marks on the stick over the course of a 7500 mile interval.

Now, its not *supposed* to use enough between oil changes to go under the add mark of the dipstick or be a problem. The intention is to loose maybe a half a quart to not more than one quart over the time from one oil change to the next, and thats at the high end. Ideally we'd be talking more like 1/4 to 1/3 quart, which is the neighborhood my engine seems to be in. Actually, I think mine would be right at a half a quart probably if it ever went a full interval between changes, but I never give it the chance.

After reading articles describing how and why some modern engines use a small amount of oil on purpose, I resolved to double up on my recommended oil changes which basically just puts me near what was a "normal" oil change interval for cars back in the day. Right now the Compass computer seems to be on track to call for an oil change roughly every 8000 miles for my driving and usage (it's internal calculation varies depending on how you drive and in what conditions). I simply cut that in half, so when I first reached 4000 miles I changed the oil. Then at 8000 the computer threw up an oil change message and the dealer did it. Then at 12,000 miles I changed the oil again at home. At around 16,000 I expect the computer to put up a message again and into the dealer I will go. 4000 miles between each oil change, more than frequent enough to hopefully never have an issue with slight intended oil consumption and gasoline contamination that comes with less-tight piston rings, but long enough that I don't see it as a major burden (especially since I am only doing every other one). So far with the miles I drive this works out to the dealer changing the oil twice a year and me changing the oil myself twice a year. Whoopdido.

Obviously I'm one of the lucky ones. Mine only uses the tiniest bit, as was intended. I think where trouble really starts is for some of you, you get a motor that was already intended out of the gate to us a little oil, and you were unlucky enough to get an "extra loose" motor that was at the extreme end of the mass-production acceptable minimum tolerance range and all you need on top of that is for your rings to fail to seat a little bit the first few hundred miles and boom, you got yourself a very oil-thirsty engine.

The service and marketing and sales departments don't want to vocalize this intentional oil consumption thing too much, they know it sounds very bad at face value and that many of us will struggle a lot to come to the engineer's line of thinking that they have made a "good trade" in using a bit of oil to gain a bit of economy and power. They are between a rock and a hard place, the governments are legislating and demanding more and more efficient engines, this is one way to inch towards that goal, but they have to hope the average consumer never checks their dipstick and pays attention to what it was at 1000 miles ago. For 95%+ modern car buyers this is a safe bet to make, hardly anyone pays attention to their oil level nowadays. But they have opened themselves up to a percentage of their mass-produced motors being a little too loosey-goosey and still passing inspection and poor folks who get those unlucky motors are going to be really mad.

The thing is you can't hardly get away from this anywhere. Its not one lone car brand or company that is doing this. Any mass-produced car you buy from any branded lot could be a lurking lemon. Odds are in your favor but *somebody* is going to get the handful of bad ones.

My honest two cents, take it or leave it:

1) Start out with a lease. It doesn't have to be a long one, but long enough to give you time to know whether or not you have one of the "good ones". If you get stuck with an oil-consuming, poor gas mileage, faulty-electronics, lemony-peppered-pig then happily give it back to them at the end of the lease and you won't come out ahead but you won't be too far 'behind' if you know what I mean.

2) Seat those rings! Know somebody with a 1000-2000 pound boat you can borrow for a couple days? Hitch it up around the 600-mile mark and do some gentle but firm accelerations on a safe country road somewhere. Or load up the cargo area with bricks. Google "new engine ring break-in procedure" for some ideas maybe. A moderate amount of heavy load can help piston rings seat and seal, as best as they can anyways. You aren't supposed to have to do this on a new motor but I don't know what else to tell you, its worth a try, seems to have worked out ok for me.

3) Don't put anything but good quality full synthetic oil in your engine, especially early on in life. No slick-50 or anything hoaky like that. If you start playing guessing games with friction modifiers early in an engine's life because of something you read on the internet, your rings may never seat and you will have a life-long oil burner for sure.

If you have a motor you think burns wayyy too much oil (ie, those of you that get oil pressure lights on the dash) go get a compression test done. This is about the only non-invasive thing you can do to find out if your rings are having major problems sealing, assuming the valves all work as they should. This is also something solid evidence-wise that should hold up arbitration or court, or it may point towards a problem in another area. I haven't looked but I have a feeling its pretty tough to do a compression test on these engines so if someone ever gets that far, I'd be curious to know how it goes and how much of a pain it is with the design of the intake.

Alright I've typed way more than enough for now, I'm sure you are all very sick of me by this point but hey, my 2 cents is free. If it leads you to google around and learn something, great. If you learn that I am wrong and full of sh t, thats also great. I don't care too much since mine works really good so far (knock on wood) but I hate to see other people having such a bad time after putting out their hard earned money.
 
I have a 2017 Trailhawk with approx 13k miles. I have noticed since brand new that it takes about 2 quarts of oil in between oil changes. I did first oil change myself at about 7500 miles and switched to synthetic thinking this would solve the problem. It didn’t. I check the oil every month and always needs topping off. I googled the problem which brought me to this forum and as I suspected I would find others having the same problem with no real solution. I guess I will just have to continue checking oil level. For past 15 years I’ve had Toyota’s and Honda’s and never checked oil in between changes. This Compass is a real disappointment. I’ll keep checking for a solution. But for now I’ll keep several quarts of oil on hand.
 
I took mine in for an oil change at 7500 miles and it was 2 1/2 qts low. I can understand a little oil but DAMN! I am a little frustrated right now.
 
Just got first oil change yesterday I checked level before taking it in level was fine and none has been added since new. The oil it used up to 6950 showed on the stick around halfway mark and it was around full first time I checked. I consider this good especially during break in.

arudlang is correct the oil rings in many newer style engines are not as tight as older engines this to try to reduce internal engine friction and improve mileage. But also research as proven letting small amounts of oil get past the rings will help the engine last longer due to better upper cylinder lubrication.

This however should only account for small amount of oil loss. What some of you guys are seeing is in fact excessive oil use. Most likely due to those oil rings being way to out of the new tolerance. Keep in mind this will also likely result in catalytic converter failure much sooner than it should happen.

Best of luck getting these issues resolved.
 
Update: I added 300 miles today. We drove to Lambeau field from southern Wisconsin. When we got back I checked the oil again. All is good! I think the oil Ioss i reported last post was the difference between the engine being hot and cold. This time it was back up to the first time I checked it. To be clear.. mine does not seem to be burning any oil.
 

Attachments

My 18 TrailHawk does consume about a 1/2 qt /1K miles.
I have never in all my previous cars seen such a major difference on the oil stick between cold and hot oil level. This engine must have a tall oil pan. When hot and expansion occurs it makes a difference of about 1/8” on the stick reading.
I did my own 1st synthetic oil change at about 800mi on the clock. After complete & run the engine just a few to check for leaks, I let it sit for 2mins & checked level (not up to full oil temp) , the level was exactly at 100% @ the upper line of the hatched area.
Sooooo, after another 1K miles, I just checked it cold again & it was 1/8” low. I had to add 1/2 qt to bring it to 100%.
Don’t mean to split hairs here but this thread has me hyper-alert about the oil level. Just some observations.
 
Sooooo, after another 1K miles, I just checked it cold again & it was 1/8” low. I had to add 1/2 qt to bring it to 100%.
Don’t mean to split hairs here but this thread has me hyper-alert about the oil level. Just some observations.
I generally try to check mine when the engine is warm. The manual suggests checking when warm.

From page 370
"Checking the oil while the vehicle is on level ground, and
approximately five minutes after a fully warmed engine is
shut off, will improve the accuracy of the oil level readings.
Maintain the oil level between the range markings on the
dipstick. The safe range is indicated by a crosshatch zone.
Adding 1 quart (0.9 Liters) of oil when the reading is at the
low end of the indicated range will result in the oil level at
the full end of the indicator range."
 
You can read the marketing blurb yourself at the link below. A couple of points though:

MultiAir technology, which is exclusive to FCA US in the North American market, uses a column of oil in place of the traditional mechanical link between the camshaft and intake valves. The resulting precision maximizes intake manifold pressure, significantly reducing pumping losses.

MultiAir2 takes the innovation further by simultaneously controlling both valve opening and closing events to more effectively manage combustion quality.


So there is an additional amount of oil being pumped to the top of the motor, probably explaining the difference between cold and hot oil levels.

The Tigershark’s polymer-coated piston skirts and tighter piston-to-bore tolerances contribute to reduced noise, vibration and harshness (NVH). The cast-aluminum piston, combustion chamber and ports align with the MultiAir2 system for optimal combustion and fuel economy.

Cast-aluminum pistons with a compression ratio of 10:1 are designed specifically for the engine and MultiAir system.

Each bore is fitted with individual oil-squirters in the block that spray oil on the bottom of the pistons and bore walls to maintain cylinder-wall and piston temperatures. This feature also helps prevent hot spots that could lead to knock, while improving performance and fuel economy.


The 'oil squirters' (LOL!) probably contribute to the excessive oil leakage/poor fuel economy that occurs in some of these engines. Root cause would be the typical FCA stuff ie some pistons/rings/cylinder bores are out of spec, allowing excessive oil into the combustion chambers, enhanced by the oil sprays. FCA's "official response" sort of makes sense. Certainly it is BS that the oil loss is normal, but, it's worth a shot to keep running the engine for a while and hope it wears in. They have this instinctive need to lie to customers it seems. They should just say look, try driving the thing for another 5,000 miles, if it's still bad then we will change out the motor.
Hopefully they won't continue in the traditional FCA practice of deny and delay until past warranty - it's not just the engine of course, all that carbon will affect sensors, cats, and generally screw up the vehicle. But my bet is that's exactly what they will do.

http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=17955
 
You can read the marketing blurb yourself at the link below. A couple of points though:

MultiAir technology, which is exclusive to FCA US in the North American market, uses a column of oil in place of the traditional mechanical link between the camshaft and intake valves. The resulting precision maximizes intake manifold pressure, significantly reducing pumping losses.

MultiAir2 takes the innovation further by simultaneously controlling both valve opening and closing events to more effectively manage combustion quality.


So there is an additional amount of oil being pumped to the top of the motor, probably explaining the difference between cold and hot oil levels.

The Tigershark’s polymer-coated piston skirts and tighter piston-to-bore tolerances contribute to reduced noise, vibration and harshness (NVH). The cast-aluminum piston, combustion chamber and ports align with the MultiAir2 system for optimal combustion and fuel economy.

Cast-aluminum pistons with a compression ratio of 10:1 are designed specifically for the engine and MultiAir system.

Each bore is fitted with individual oil-squirters in the block that spray oil on the bottom of the pistons and bore walls to maintain cylinder-wall and piston temperatures. This feature also helps prevent hot spots that could lead to knock, while improving performance and fuel economy.


The 'oil squirters' (LOL!) probably contribute to the excessive oil leakage/poor fuel economy that occurs in some of these engines. Root cause would be the typical FCA stuff ie some pistons/rings/cylinder bores are out of spec, allowing excessive oil into the combustion chambers, enhanced by the oil sprays. FCA's "official response" sort of makes sense. Certainly it is BS that the oil loss is normal, but, it's worth a shot to keep running the engine for a while and hope it wears in. They have this instinctive need to lie to customers it seems. They should just say look, try driving the thing for another 5,000 miles, if it's still bad then we will change out the motor.
Hopefully they won't continue in the traditional FCA practice of deny and delay until past warranty - it's not just the engine of course, all that carbon will affect sensors, cats, and generally screw up the vehicle. But my bet is that's exactly what they will do.

http://media.fcanorthamerica.com/newsrelease.do?id=17955

The same engine is in use on several other FCA cars like Jeep Renegade, Jeep Cherokee, Dodge Dart, Dodge Promaster, Chrysler 200 to same some. Based on a quick web search, you can see the engine has the same oil loss issue in all of these cars. The most interesting part, no mechanic even FCA could precisely determined where the engine oil is going to. I think this is the reason why they cant fix it and it still appears in the engines that were built 4 years after the issue is first identified.

There is detailed analysis reports on dodge dart forum that rules out minor leaks or oil being burned (as it cannot be traced in the exhaust gasses). The main conclusion dodge owners came up with was oil being aerosolized or vaporized by the oil spraying mechanism. This aerosolized oil eventually leaves the engine, basically either as a liquid/gas suspension or as a gas (but without actually burning). That is why it cant be traced in the exhaust and why it doesn't leave sludge marks inside the engine that indicate internal decomposition of oil. There is an overall tendency for oil loss reducing overtime, some suggested this might be because of sludge basically sealing the passages aerosolized oil can escape or seals swelling overtime and achieving better sealing .

Why some engines have this, others dont is the big question. Maybe it is the type oil being used as even authorized dealers use different brands of oil. I think i read somewhere that you can at least achieve partial reduction of oil consumption by using very high quality (and expensive) synthetic oils like Amsoil that do not as easily vaporize. But how practical this is the question since these oils are intended to be used over longer intervals and if it just a minor improvement, you will still be paying more with fewer oil changes or toppings. It would be interesting to know if anybody tried using a higher viscosity oil like 5W-20 to see if it reduces oil loss (though it will also reduce MPG and performance).

At least some dart owners were able to prevent new cars from having this issue by following a very "hardcore" break in procedure with multiple very early oil changes. Its hard to say how much if this an actual fact and how much of it is conformation bias since some engines already dont lose oil.
 
I don't believe oil is being "aerosolized" especially not in such massive quantities for some of you, nor do I believe the oil "type" makes much of a difference whatsoever as long as we all pretty much agree brand-name full synthetic is the way to go.

If oil was being carried out with air venting somewhere you would see this at the venting point, especially if you are talking quarts between oil changes like some of these guys have. The only way multiple quarts could just disappear without an oily trace around the block somewhere is if it was burned up and sent out the exhaust.

I don't see any evidence for this claim "it [the oil] cannot be traced in the exhaust gasses". On the contrary I see many 2.4 powered vehicles spitting a puff of blue smoke when they take off from stop signs or lights. I don't need any kind of advanced technical equipment to tell you what the blue smoke was mostly made of...
 
PCV was one of the first automotive emission controls. All modern engines have some form of it and there should be little chance of anything venting to the atmosphere from the crankcase. Instead, any vapors or gases are drawn into the engine and burned.
"aerosolized oil" would actually be more likely to burn completely than liquid oil. Very small droplets have a lot of surface area and mix well with air, promoting efficient combustion. And, modern engine oil is mostly 'ash-less', ie, it leaves minimal deposits when burned.

So yes it is quite possible for engine oil to 'disappear' through the engine. However the question is why is the engine losing oil, not where the oil is going. Wouldn't surprise me at all if some of the oil spray nozzles are off spec and/or they get damaged or partially blocked during manufacturing. However this all comes down to FCA needing to stop trying to BS and bluster their way out of this Trump style and instead diagnose and fix the problems.
 
My 2018 Compass has had a raft of issues but the oil consumption is by far the scariest. After around 9500km (6000miles) I’ve put in just under 5litres (1.3gal) of oil. That’s crazy! I’m not interested in dealing with Jeep to ‘fix’ it. Considering they couldn’t even straighten the steering wheel when I asked then to, since it wasn’t straight when it was new, I doubt they’d be able to. Anyhow, it appears to be a deeper issue from all reports looking around the web. I’m exiting the vehicle after losing my shirt on the deal.
I’ve gone from an 8 time brand new Jeep purchaser to never wanting to see another Jeep.. well after we dump my wife’s Overland that is.
The electronics in the compass have been more than a little frustrating too but that’s for another thread.
I think the profile of this all needs raising somewhat, even via social media so others don’t get sucked in to this thing.
I hope you all manage to live with it or sort it out to your satisfaction.
 
21 - 40 of 160 Posts